Episodes

Eggplant. Water spurts. Peach, peach, peach. Devil emoji. We talk about the studies on sexters vs. non-sexters, the bizarre history of sexting, and emoji misunderstandings.

 

In this episode: News- 2:34 || Main Topic (Sexting)- 14:49 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:12:20

 

On the bonus segment, coming soon, we’ll read tips from the internet on sexting and debate their efficacy. 

Ma Johnson joins us to play a game of “Rodeo Term or Sex Act.” Also, the gay rodeo, bareback, Willie Nelson, Lil Nas X, and lots of talk about gay cowboys.

 

In this episode: News- 1:31 || Main Topic (Rodeo)- 17:31 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:01:30

Kris & Shana from the Bad Queers podcast join us to talk about intersectionality, the sassy black woman affectation, and their experience of racism and sexism within the queer community.

In this episode: News- 2:42 || Main Topic (Intersectionality)- 20:52 || Guests (Kris & Shana)- 27:00 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:11:47

Asexuals! This is the moment you’ve been waiting for! We talk about the meaning, the history, the studies, and the made-up stereotypes about asexual people. Ace, aro, gray, demi; we love all of you (in a predominantly non-sexual way).

In this episode: News- 8:25 || Main Topic (Asexual)- 25:07 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:04:03

If you’re able, please support the victims of a brutal vehicular attack through Go Fund Me. Both were non-binary people protesting for BLM in Seattle.

• Diaz Love: https://www.gofundme.com/f/diaz-love-support-fund
• Summer Taylor: https://www.gofundme.com/f/summer-taylor-support-fund

On the bonus segment coming on Monday, we talk about asexual animals, because yes, they’re real. Probably. Get bonus segments, early access to episodes, and more at www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast. 

In this live streamed episode, we talk about all the celebrities and synonyms and orgasms you need to know about associated with #thatfreeballinglife.

In this episode: News- 3:05 || Main Topic (Freeballing)- 9:30 || Gayest & Straightest- 50:00

In the Patreon bonus segment, Fucking Dan tells us about the origins of the phrase “going commando.” For all the bonus content we have to offer, go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.

As requested by Patreon member Tipsy McStumbles (obvi a Gayish listener), we talk about gay baiting, i.e. queerbaiting. What is it? Does Nick Jonas qualify? What does Urban Dictionary think? And what does it have to do with breast cancer?

In this episode: News- 5:19 || Main Topic (Gay Baiting)- 23:35 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:06:52

If you want some gayish rewards, including the opportunity to pick your own episode topic, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Mike Johnson 0:00
[intro music, sung] When you know that you are queer, but your favorite drink is beer that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish . Life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.

Mike Johnson 0:21
Hello everyone in the podcast universe. This is gayish.

Kyle Getz 0:24
The proud creators of the first ever olfactory podcast. Wait, wait, don’t smell me.

Mike Johnson 0:30
No, I don’t want to

Kyle Getz 0:32
Nope. We’ve already signed on for a three season deal with the podcasting Company of America.

Mike Johnson 0:39
Oh god. I’m Mike Johnson.

Kyle Getz 0:41
I’m Kyle Getz.

Mike Johnson 0:42
We’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality and today

Kyle Getz 0:45
Today, we’re gonna

Mike Johnson 0:47
what are we talking about?

Kyle Getz 0:48
Let’s just talk about life. Mike. What’s new?

Mike Johnson 0:51
What’s new? We’re here in person together.

Kyle Getz 0:54
Oh, yeah.

Mike Johnson 0:54
Talking on microphones in the same room

Kyle Getz 0:57
as permitted by King County. phase we moved from phase 1.5 to phase two.

Mike Johnson 1:04
Yep. getting back to normal one half of a phase at a time.

Kyle Getz 1:09
Yep. There’s no two and a half is there.

Mike Johnson 1:11
I fucking hope not

Kyle Getz 1:12
there might be

Mike Johnson 1:13
I hate that shit so much. have I bitched about that too many times yet. you can’t have a four phase play on and say here’s like the medical, like the data reasons to move from one to the other and then invent a 1.5 to make people happy because it makes me lose confidence in the whole fucking system.

Kyle Getz 1:29
Yeah, I mean, did you was there still any confidence? I’m, I’m just we’re gonna talk about gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 1:36
We’re gonna talk about gay baiting

Kyle Getz 1:37
as requested, as requested by Patreon member tipsy mcstumbles

Mike Johnson 1:42
that boy hot. I’m sorry. He is.

Kyle Getz 1:47
Okay.

Mike Johnson 1:48
Wait, wait, that’s okay.

Kyle Getz 1:49
You cant say that.

Mike Johnson 1:50
Why not?

Kyle Getz 1:51
That’s weird.

Mike Johnson 1:53
What if there is some like real hot dudes out there that like, want to give us money because they know they’ll get attention. When they do

Kyle Getz 2:02
well then all the uglies are gonna feel bad if we do like a Patreon episode for someone that’s ugly and you’re like he was very nice, then they’re gonna be like oh no,

Mike Johnson 2:11
but when he’s when his name when he when he donated under the name tipsy McStumbles when we saw him on camera, I was like, That boy doesn’t fall down much at all. Like,

Kyle Getz 2:19
you don’t you don’t know. um gay bating

Mike Johnson 2:23
gay bating.

Kyle Getz 2:24
But first

Mike Johnson 2:24
But first, but first we have a correction. That sort of. Okay, so a couple of people wrote in about the IAT the Implicit Association test, which we talked about in the gay white privilege episode, that you can go to implicit.harvard.edu and have it check your implicit biases against things specifically people of color black people, is one of the options for the test to take. And that test is not without controversy. There are valid criticisms that’s being started. All the time. There are lots of different publications out there and in papers that have been written about its validity or lack thereof. And I just want to acknowledge that that’s, that’s real. ]

Kyle Getz 3:14
Are you gonna tell me the criticisms? Or is it

Mike Johnson 3:16
if you want to go into them? We can.

Kyle Getz 3:18
Is it interesting?

Mike Johnson 3:19
Well, it’s interesting, but it’s also lengthy. So I won’t I won’t go into that. But yeah, I think a couple of things. So first, it’s not like a slam dunk. The it’s totally horseshit. And everyone agrees that it’s horseshit. And we’re bad people for suggesting it that because that’s not the case. It’s just it’s contested and is controversial. And the but the other thing is, I think that that the idea that there even could possibly be a test for this. And it having it encourage a person to ask themselves Am I racist? And then maybe take the test. I think there’s valid like there’s utility and just that everybody should ask themselves that every day.

Kyle Getz 4:06
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, and like we said, the answer is yes. Like you. You are you exist within a racist system that white people like us. Yeah.

Mike Johnson 4:19
Mm hmm.

Kyle Getz 4:21
Equally important correction or clarification? SpongeBob has a butt

Mike Johnson 4:25
he does have a butt that’s true.

Kyle Getz 4:27
We got several pictures in our Facebook group of his butt. it’s a little bit juicier than I thought for a sponge.

Mike Johnson 4:35
Well, and then like, so his pants had like a swivel the door that opened up and then like the juicy cheeks were right behind it. And I was like, like, SpongeBob your pants don’t fit.

Kyle Getz 4:48
Maybe that’s the part where like, maybe water has specifically soaked into that part. And so it like inflated it.

Mike Johnson 4:54
Oh, is that how you get a bigger butt just sit in the bathtub

Kyle Getz 4:57
under water. We don’t need to go into the physics of how spongebob works because that’s not interesting because it doesn’t Okay. Cool. Thanks for people that sent that in.

Mike Johnson 5:06
Yep. Yep.

Kyle Getz 5:07
both equally.

Mike Johnson 5:08
Yep, exactly.

Kyle Getz 5:10
news?

Mike Johnson 5:11
news time for the news.

Kyle Getz 5:12
[to the theme of “toxic” by Britney Spears] du, duh dudududuh du duhduhduh, neeee-ews neeee-ws.

Mike Johnson 5:16
it was only a matter of time. It’s so good to see you. That’s weird.

Kyle Getz 5:21
It’s fine seeing you.

Mike Johnson 5:21
Okay, great.

Kyle Getz 5:23
No, it’s it’s good hanging out in person and getting to look at you not on a screen.

Mike Johnson 5:27
Yep. Yep. I agree. I agree. Dan.

Kyle Getz 5:30
Dan is off this week.

Mike Johnson 5:31
Dan is off this week, but he will be back. Yeah, some people have said that they’re worried about him and maybe rightly so.

Kyle Getz 5:37
No, he’s well, he’s alive in a person.

Mike Johnson 5:39
And, and he’ll be back.

Kyle Getz 5:40
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 5:41
Okay, great. Um, so, first of all, I want to talk about the Republican Party’s 2020 platform. Which has been more or less finalized in in preparation for the Republican National Convention in Jacksonville, Florida. Coming up,

Kyle Getz 6:01
where I think we said we’re gonna go and like, wait in the bathroom stalls or something.

Mike Johnson 6:05
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 6:05
Just to see, or like, get on Grindr.

Mike Johnson 6:07
Yeah, talk about glory holes. Let’s, let’s bring that although I would be so afraid of hooking up lindsey graham on accident. Okay. So a couple of things. First of all, they’ve made no changes. So it’s exactly the same platform as 2016, which is hilarious because there are wide sections of the platform that now criticize the current administration, because it’s not Obama anymore. The current administration fucked this up, the current administration fucked that up. It’s still in their platform,

Kyle Getz 6:36
which I mean, they were excusing that because of Corona that they weren’t going to get together and change it. But I also like, that’s the purpose of virtual, I don’t know, whatever,

Mike Johnson 6:47
expect Republicans to figure out

Kyle Getz 6:48
Old republicans

Mike Johnson 6:50
how to do anything online.

Kyle Getz 6:52
What- they’re the same ones that are like, how do you get the internet to open like I can’t? Yeah,

Mike Johnson 6:59
yep. And it’s important I think for us to talk about is gayish and makes the news because that means their platform continues to condemn obergefell versus Hodges which legalized marriage equality across America. It insists in their platform in the fucking written down This is what republicans stand for. You can’t fucking deny it. Quote five unelected lawyers robbed. 320 million Americans have their legitimate constitutional authority to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman. The court twisted the meaning of the 14th amendment beyond recognition. We did not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration, or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the States.

Kyle Getz 7:41
I remember when I got twisted beyond recognition. I miss it so much Mike

Mike Johnson 7:46
You never really recovered though. Like,

Kyle Getz 7:49
wait,

Mike Johnson 7:49
you haven’t been the same ever since

Kyle Getz 7:51
ever since what

Mike Johnson 7:52
you got twisted beyond recognition.

Kyle Getz 7:54
What are you talking? I’m talking about getting slammed real good. What do you talking about?

Mike Johnson 7:57
That’s what I’m talking about.

Kyle Getz 7:59
Are you talking about once specific instance

Mike Johnson 8:00
that one time when you left and when you came back, you’re like a changed man because you, you got railed so good.

Kyle Getz 8:06
I don’t remember this one.

Mike Johnson 8:07
Me either I’m inventing it

Kyle Getz 8:09
Oh, okay. I couldn’t. I didn’t know. Okay, sorry, I wasn’t playing along.

Mike Johnson 8:14
Great.

Kyle Getz 8:14
Yes,

Mike Johnson 8:15
yes,

Kyle Getz 8:15
sure.

Mike Johnson 8:16
Sure.

Kyle Getz 8:17
Yeah, I think people are still surprised that that is written down in their platform. And that’s why it’s- there lots of reasons that I would be- disagree with Republican platform. But it’s kind of just the easy go to of like, you don’t agree that I deserve the right, you have written down that you don’t think I am equal.

Mike Johnson 8:37
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 8:37
Like, I don’t. You are directly by voting for any republican you are directly voting for a platform that doesn’t think I’m equal. And you can justify that there might be a lot of different reasons you say that you’re voting for them, but you have to recognize at the same time you were voting for someone who doesn’t think I should be able to get married.

Mike Johnson 8:58
Yep. Yep. Can’t get around it.

Kyle Getz 9:02
Nope.

Mike Johnson 9:03
I mean and the other Yep. One thing I see that I always chuckle at is the just because you vote republican doesn’t mean you’re anti gay. But it means that being anti gay isn’t a deal breaker for you, so need to get right with that Because that’s indeed what that party stands for.

Kyle Getz 9:18
Yep. Yep.

Mike Johnson 9:21
So speaking of the RNC, which is happening soon, the log cabin Republicans, which is an organization of

Kyle Getz 9:29
that existsin a paradoxical world,and I don’t understand

Mike Johnson 9:33
it’s gay republicans are called log cabin Republicans. They have been denied the right to have a booth at the convention.

Kyle Getz 9:41
So again, right don’t get consistently get denied?

Mike Johnson 9:45
again, for the 20th year in a row. The state republican executive committee has denied the LGBTQ group a booth at the state’s upcoming republican convention.

Kyle Getz 9:55
Did we talk- we talked about this with Patreon like happy hour thing we did And I think, okay, I might have a little bit different viewpoint of that in that I understand the idea of working within a group that’s homophobic to try to make it less homophobic. Um, and I think I think back to Joseph Peters Matthews talking about like, yes, religion is, Christianity is homophobic. Also he believes it and wants to- and is working to change that and, you know, so yeah, it sucks for them that but they also they should know because it’s in the platform like Yeah,

Mike Johnson 10:37
yep, yep, yep. Yep. Okay, good.

Kyle Getz 10:41
Okay cool

Mike Johnson 10:43
I don’t feel bad for them. But then I do like I feel bad for them in that tragic way.

Kyle Getz 10:47
Yeah. Like, like, when you feel bad for like closeted people that, you know, stay in the closet. And it’s like, it sucks because I get why it’s society’s pressure. But

Mike Johnson 10:59
Yep. So a little bit of good news. So the, for the longest time, children born outside the country to married gay couples were not automatically considered US citizens, even in the case of surrogacy. So basically the I’ll just read this a federal judge ruled Wednesday that the US State Department must recognize that the daughter of a same sex couple in Maryland has been a US citizen since her birth in Canada via a surrogate last year. So the Trump administration had said that the child was not because it was born out of wedlock. That the child was born out of wedlock because one of her married parents is not her biological parent.

Kyle Getz 11:56
Oh, like the biological parents are not married. So it’s- got it

Mike Johnson 12:01
correct. So, the father say their daughter is being denied the birthright citizenship she’s entitled to as the child of American parents because her parents are a same sex married couple.

Kyle Getz 12:12
I take it. If straight people’s child is born in Canada, they would be considered a US citizen

Mike Johnson 12:20
if they are married to each other. So like in 30 rock when they wouldn’t when jack Donaghy is worried that his child’s going to be born in Canada, doesn’t matter. You’re still an American citizen under those under those circumstances because you’re born to American parents.

Kyle Getz 12:33
Got it.

Mike Johnson 12:33
Anyway. that’s now been fixed. So the judge ruled that the child was indeed a US citizen at birth. And that closes a fairly significant loophole that’s been a problem for gay married couples trying to do international surrogacy for a while.

Kyle Getz 12:52
That’s great.

Mike Johnson 12:53
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 12:53
Cool.

Mike Johnson 12:54
Ta da.

Kyle Getz 12:54
Da da da da!

Mike Johnson 12:59
I think that’s… no okay. I we also need we also need to talk about just briefly, the the landmark decision that happened last week, we had a happy hour and a bunch of people came on zoom to talk about it, but I guess we haven’t talked about it on the show.

Kyle Getz 13:14
Yeah,

Mike Johnson 13:15
so time to at least a little bit. So, six to three, the Supreme Court ruled that you cannot be fired for being gay or trans. Nationwide, starting immediately right now.

Kyle Getz 13:25
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 13:26
And it was a big surprise because it was a six to three decision. And the opinion was written by Neil Gorsuch, who was a Trump appointee, the one that stole Merrick Garland seat. And it’s a it’s a big, big deal. Some people say bigger than gay marriage.

Kyle Getz 13:40
Hm.

Mike Johnson 13:41
But yeah, I mean, we’ve been bitching about being able to be fired in other states for being gay for a long time. We can’t say it anymore, Kyle.

Kyle Getz 13:46
Oh, no. Well, we can bitch about- Okay. Well, what was interesting about when we talked on the call, like, there were people that were smart on the call, so I’m like, here’s what I think and people were like i dunno… but the possibility is That then says title seven…?

Mike Johnson 14:02
Mhm.

Kyle Getz 14:02
oh my god I got that right. Thank you. I was preemptively thanking, everyone, because I’m sure they were excited. And

Mike Johnson 14:09
I could hear the applause already.

Kyle Getz 14:11
Yes. That could then mean that when they talk about sex in the in title seven, that now sex includes things like being trans being gay being bi, all that good stuff. So it’s possible this could extend beyond just employment. It sounds like that’s not for sure. Like that’s kind of the question then does this extend beyond employment but there’s still things like housing. There’s one more thing that everyone brings up that can’t think of but

Mike Johnson 14:41
yeah, there’s there’s there’s precedent for the definitions in title seven to affect things outside of title seven that’s happened before. And so the thought is that maybe that will happen this time. Also, just because it’s happened before. What’s interesting, so title seven, it’s the title is title seven of the civil Rights Act of 1964. And it prohibits discrimination based on race, religion, national origin and sex. And the court ruled that sex includes sexual orientation. And it’s really pretty cut and dry. Like Neil Gorsuch lays it out in the first page of the opinion. If I am Susan’s manager, and I find out she has a boyfriend, and I do nothing, and I also David’s manager, and I find out that he has a boyfriend, and I fire him. The only difference between Susan and David is their gender. That is gender discrimination. That is sex discrimination, and therefore is illegal under the title. It’s pretty easy, I think to understand

Kyle Getz 15:40
Yeah, though. I think you’ve explained that to me. Even before this you should be a Supreme Court something.

Mike Johnson 15:45
Thank you.

Kyle Getz 15:45
You’re welcome. And I really liked that way of thinking about it because it made it very obvious. Didn’t the dissenters mostly disagree on like, not on the idea that but more like technical.

Mike Johnson 16:02
So textualists, which is another way of saying conservative when it comes to like Supreme Court stuff. They believe that you have to interpret the law based on what Congress understood the text to be when they wrote it. And their argument is Congress in 1964, when they wrote down the word sex, there’s no way they were possibly thinking about homosexuals. Therefore, we can’t retroactively put it in there now,

Kyle Getz 16:28
which they probably weren’t like, that’s true. Like,

Mike Johnson 16:30
yes. But there’s, there’s precedent to say. I mean, the the easy to understand argument that I just laid out means it is about sex. And there’s precedent that says, There might be other explanations, but if this very basic explanation covers it, that’s all you need. And anyway, yeah,

Kyle Getz 16:53
yeah, that was a surprise Pride Month. You know, we just needed something good.

Mike Johnson 16:58
Honest to God. I thought it was gonna Four to five the wrong way. Ended up being six to three is

Kyle Getz 17:03
Yeah, six to three. I even I know way less than you and that was like surprised by

Mike Johnson 17:08
Yeah. Because the four splits are like every decision.

Kyle Getz 17:12
Yes like yes.

Mike Johnson 17:14
And then last but not least I want to continue the queer black person from history.

Kyle Getz 17:20
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 17:20
segment for the month. And I want to talk about Willie ninja.

Kyle Getz 17:24
No. Bill ninja?

Mike Johnson 17:28
Yeah, do you know

Kyle Getz 17:29
no, I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I already love him.

Mike Johnson 17:32
Yep. William Roscoe Leake was born April 12 1961, and is better known as Willie ninja. He was an American dancer and choreographer, best known for his appearance in the documentary film. Paris is burning.

Kyle Getz 17:47
I have not seen that. And that seems like one of those staples that I need to see.

Mike Johnson 17:51
Yeah, I haven’t seen it either. Maybe we’ll watch it after this.

Kyle Getz 17:53
Oh, that’d be smart.

Mike Johnson 17:54
So ninja is a gay man and he is known as the godfather of voguing

Kyle Getz 18:01
mm.

Mike Johnson 18:02
So it was a fixture of ball culture at Harlem’s drag balls and he took inspiration from sources as far flung as Fred Astaire, the world of haute couture to develop a unique style of dance and movement and then

Kyle Getz 18:14
Hey Mike

Mike Johnson 18:15
Hey Kyle

Kyle Getz 18:16
ball

Mike Johnson 18:17
ball, ball.

Kyle Getz 18:18
Okay, keep going.

Mike Johnson 18:21
I mean, basically he was a self taught dancer, perfected the voguing style, because of his appearance in that documentary was sort of raised elevated to the level of being like the face of of voguing pre Madonna. Not prima donna.

Kyle Getz 18:40
Yep.

Mike Johnson 18:41
Before Madonna.

Kyle Getz 18:41
Pre. Madonna. I used to think that prima donna was, like, yeah that confused me,

Mike Johnson 18:50
but, um, let’s see he. The name ninja came from the fact that he had founded the house of ninja voguing is built around this idea of houses. And that’s the house that he formed. It’s a combination of extended social family and dance troupe. He

Kyle Getz 19:10
particularly because you know, a lot of people especially at that time, and still today like get kicked out of their homes. So that’s the idea of, you know, chosen family or your house or your, you know, your mother

Mike Johnson 19:21
he was the house mother, that’s motherhood that is that that is the term. Thank you for putting that word in my mouth that’s not working right now. Um, and then he passed away of AIDS related complications at the age of 45. In on September 2 2006. I

Kyle Getz 19:42
we always, we always think about like the the or at least, I should say, I think about the people that we lost to AIDS in the 80s and 90s. But also like, that generation, we kept losing them throughout like that’s such an influential, important person that we lost earlier Than we would have in the 2000s due to AIDS. Yeah,

Mike Johnson 20:04
yep. Yep. I also I want to put in here. I mean, we just have to own it. Black people invented voguing. If you think it’s Madonna’s thing, she fucking stole it.

Kyle Getz 20:17
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 20:18
It’s just another example of white people stealing pop culture shit from black people, and not giving them any sort of credit or recognition for it.

Kyle Getz 20:25
Yeah, yep. Yep.

Mike Johnson 20:27
That’s it.

Kyle Getz 20:27
Whoa, okay.

Mike Johnson 20:29
Willie ninja.

Kyle Getz 20:30
I had no idea and that’s like one of those names. I’m trying to do better at learning. Gay, queer black people from history and in general, like queer people from history, but that’s an important one that I’m glad I know about. Bayard Rustin is the other one that I was like, I’m gonna- I need to remember this name. That’s

Mike Johnson 20:50
MLK’s

Kyle Getz 20:51
Yep. Super influential in MLK is, you know, policies, thoughts, beliefs, around the time of the civil rights movement and doesn’t get a Lot of credit and

Mike Johnson 21:01
we’ve talked about him before though,

Kyle Getz 21:03
but I forget so I like made it a point I like had it on my computer. So every time I looked at it and I said his name over and over and over so I could remember cuz that’s such an important person. Okay.

Mike Johnson 21:14
That’s the news.

Kyle Getz 21:15
That’s the news. Okay, um, I want to thank Patreon members Juan Cordero. I got to use my Spanish accent. Accento espanol. What?

Mike Johnson 21:30
Juan.

Kyle Getz 21:30
Juan Cordero. Yeah. And Derek, that’s not a Spanish thing. But I’m already in the accent so might as well. Q Davis, which I just wanted to be q when I saw that

Mike Johnson 21:45
Like just the letter Q?

Kyle Getz 21:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Q period. Okay, Davis, but I’m just gonna call them Q.

Mike Johnson 21:51
Okay.

Kyle Getz 21:51
Thank you. Q.

Mike Johnson 21:53
Remember q Bert, do you remember that game? Or the cartoon?

Kyle Getz 21:57
I remember a cartoon.

Mike Johnson 21:58
Great. Continue

Kyle Getz 21:59
barely In that I’ve heard that anyway, uh, Alex Claus.

Mike Johnson 22:04
Aw.

Kyle Getz 22:05
The Alex clause you can what Alex, What is the what is the clause? What are what’s allowed because you’re Alex?

Mike Johnson 22:11
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 22:12
Um, and Arthur.

Mike Johnson 22:14
Just Arthur.

Kyle Getz 22:17
Guess what Mike?

Mike Johnson 22:19
Hey Kyle.

Kyle Getz 22:20
Oh, hey, Mike.

Mike Johnson 22:21
Was it Arthur the ardvark from that cartoon?

Kyle Getz 22:24
No, that’s Polari word of the week

Kyle Getz 22:27
I snuck it in a different place than usual.

Mike Johnson 22:29
Oh, great.

Kyle Getz 22:30
The word Arthur means this is relevant to the topic. Barely. masturbate.

Mike Johnson 22:37
Oh, neat. Arthur.

Kyle Getz 22:40
Arthur.

Mike Johnson 22:40
Is it a verb? Like I’m gonna go arthur right now

Kyle Getz 22:42
intransitive verb. Wait, is that how- VI, intransit- Is that a thing? intransitive. feels like you’re on a bus.

Mike Johnson 22:51
I mean, a transitive verb.

Kyle Getz 22:53
I don’t know. Then Yes, it’s a verb. I don’t know why I tried to elaborate. Yes, it’s a verb. to Arthur. you can Arthur. go Arthur in the corner.

Mike Johnson 23:00
I’ve been arthuring so much in quarantine.

Kyle Getz 23:03
I’ve seen all the porn. thank you to all of our Patreon members if you want a bonus, a bonus episode, and a bonus thing and shirts. I don’t know. This is so great. You can get high quality shit like this patreon.com/gayishpodcast.

Mike Johnson 23:22
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 23:22
Should we do the episode?

Mike Johnson 23:24
Yeah, sure. let’s get let’s get to that.

Kyle Getz 23:26
Okay, okay. This is about gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 23:29
Gay baiting.

Kyle Getz 23:31
Can I start?

Mike Johnson 23:32
Sure

Kyle Getz 23:33
okay.

Mike Johnson 23:33
Yeah, go for it. Do you have gayta on bate gate. Oh, God gayta on bait gating?

Kyle Getz 23:38
Nope

Mike Johnson 23:38
gayta on gay baiting.

Kyle Getz 23:40
I think you did it.

Mike Johnson 23:41
Oh fuck. I’m just gonna arthur.

Kyle Getz 23:45
wait till I leave. Uh, okay. So I’m gonna tell you both define gay baiting. And no, I have vague data later, but not right now. I’m going to tell you both about gay baiting that definition and also other baiting, just so we know what it’s not

Mike Johnson 24:01
Oh sure. Okay

Kyle Getz 24:02
on Urban Dictionary

Mike Johnson 24:03
Okay,

Kyle Getz 24:04
I looked up all the all the different batings that I could find

Mike Johnson 24:07
this bit should get a name and maybe a theme song I won’t write.

Kyle Getz 24:14
It can just be the Mike hasn’t written a theme song theme song. No, it needs to be something more interesting if you have an idea for what this is called. Let us know. Gay baiting. It is a straight person according to urban dictionary, a straight person outwardly welcoming flirtatious behavior from homosexuals of the same gender? Oh gotcha. That confused me at first because I’m thinking dude,s because I that’s how I do. flirtatious behavior from homosexuals of the same gender in order to receive validation and entertainment. will often play the line of being flirtatious in return, but once it becomes physical, the gay bater will retract and continually assert their heterosexuality.

Mike Johnson 25:03
yeah, I mean like that’s the that’s the stereotype or the trope or whatever right the straight guy that loves to hang out at the gay bar and like loves it until he gets hit on and he’s like oh yeah

Kyle Getz 25:13
or or might be down to like get hit on enjoys that but then you try to make out with him and then he says no Kyle I don’t want that and then throws his drink in your face and you have to go home all wet and sad

Mike Johnson 25:24
that’s the template

Kyle Getz 25:25
thats the definition probably. call me Jeremy if you change your mind. Okay, other baits

Mike Johnson 25:34
Great. Okay,

Kyle Getz 25:36
bait I didn’t know this. This is like a pretty popular one

Mike Johnson 25:39
b-a-i-t or b-a-t-e?

Kyle Getz 25:41
b-a-i-t. when something is made blatantly obvious for example, it was so bait that you stole my phone. Never heard that but lots of people voted for that. So okay, cool.

Mike Johnson 25:55
Okay. I mean, I was thinking like clickbait or like,

Kyle Getz 25:58
Oh, yeah, no, no No.

Mike Johnson 26:00
Okay good.

Kyle Getz 26:01
But I mean yes, but that’s another thing a baitin’, masturbating.

Mike Johnson 26:05
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 26:05
Or arthuring. Arthur?

Mike Johnson 26:07
Arthurin’

Kyle Getz 26:08
Arthurin?

Mike Johnson 26:08
just- I’m just arthurin’.

Kyle Getz 26:10
Oh, that sounds like You have joint pain. I’m Arthurin’. I keep cracking my knuckles so I have athurin. bro baiting.

Mike Johnson 26:18
Okay

Kyle Getz 26:19
jerking off with your bro.

Mike Johnson 26:21
Oh my god. so many people seem to think that that’s what happened to my fraternity and they just

Kyle Getz 26:28
and it did! don’t say any more.

Mike Johnson 26:32
great

Kyle Getz 26:32
it never did.

Mike Johnson 26:34
no

Kyle Getz 26:35
never?

Mike Johnson 26:36
no

Kyle Getz 26:37
never? you can’t say that definitively

Mike Johnson 26:40
not to my knowledge.

Kyle Getz 26:41
yeah cuz they knew you’re gay.

Mike Johnson 26:43
I don’t think so. Maybe they did

Kyle Getz 26:46
I just want it so bad. okay, baiting call: a male who thinks he’s making progress with a girl he’s trying to fuck- oh, is trying to make a baiting call happened not a mating call So he’s he’s trying to trying to hook up with a girl and it’s not a mating call he’s trying to he thinks he’s making progress. So it’s a baiting call.

Mike Johnson 27:09
Okay.

Kyle Getz 27:10
There is this one won’t won’t come off as cool when you’re- because I’m saying and not writing it, but gr8 b8 m8. But like,

Mike Johnson 27:19
with the 8?

Kyle Getz 27:21
yeah, so gr eight, B eight and m eight. And that’s used like if someone’s obviously trolling you or trying to say something to like, Oh, my favorite characters Jar Jar Binks.

Mike Johnson 27:32
gr8 b8 m8.

Kyle Getz 27:33
Exactly. Have you heard of that? You seem to-

Mike Johnson 27:36
No But It makes sense.

Kyle Getz 27:37
Yeah, you just rolled with it. And lastly, raw bait, which is better than it even sounds when you show someone only your raw dick to bait them, but you’re actually ugly. And the only good thing about you is your penis.

Mike Johnson 27:55
Oh no.

Kyle Getz 27:57
sometimes that’s enough. Sometimes I see a dick and I’m like, I don’t need you to do anything else but have that dick.

Mike Johnson 28:04
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 28:06
I want that.

Mike Johnson 28:06
How many times on scruff or Grindr? Has there not even been a profile picture? And then you’ve gotten a direct message from them. And the first thing is just a dick.

Kyle Getz 28:16
Yep. Or okay. That’s fine. I understand that. Not really don’t do that, like be a little or whatever.

Mike Johnson 28:23
Everyone once in a while it’s a real good dick.

Kyle Getz 28:25
Well, now they have those things like accepts NSF dubs pictures, and you can say yes or no. What I’m confused about is when people send me their buttholes as like the first picture like I don’t get to know me a little bit before you sent me. dick I get it.

Mike Johnson 28:42
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 28:42
Butthole? Like let’s talk a little bit.

Mike Johnson 28:45
I mean, number one, rude. Number two, not the end I’m looking for.

Kyle Getz 28:49
Yes. This is wrong on all the levels that it could be. Okay, so the last thing I’ll say, I was lying when I said the last thing was the last thing. Um, Gay baiting so the thing we’re talking about where to like, like trying to attract homos. Um, the more positive word for that is, I don’t know how to say H O Y A Y. hoyay? which is short for homoeroticism Yay. That is when there is homoerotic subtext to a movie or TV show or whatever.

Mike Johnson 29:26
Okay, like all of Teen Wolf.

Kyle Getz 29:30
Teen Wolf was like No, no, I didn’t include it was almost one of my examples. But um yeah, so that’s kind of the there a lot of it is the subtext, the homoeroticism in gay baiting as well. So that’s the like the flip side of it’s the same thing but it’s like cool. We like it, hoyay. So those are the definitions I have.

Mike Johnson 29:51
Great. Let’s get to the fun stuff where shirtless guy sell us stuff.

Kyle Getz 29:54
Oh, okay. I love it. Are you talking about that?

Mike Johnson 29:59
So Let’s talk about queerbaiting then. So in the Patreon segment, I just talked about gay baiting as a political thing back in the day. But usually in the modern context, when we say gay baiting, or queerbaiting, we’re talking about the phenomenon of fiction and entertainment in which the creators hint at but then do not actually depict same sex romance or other LGBTQ representation.

Kyle Getz 30:26
And it’s I mean, like, the more colloquial definition also seems to be like someone doing something specifically for the gays to get them interested in something. I mean, I guess like the subtext is kind of there but I just feel like there’s a little bit of a different like, those definitions don’t totally capture the idea of like, doing something specifically for gays to try to get their interest and

Mike Johnson 30:51
Yep, yep, well, and something I mean, language is messy and and it’s not up to me or anybody to decide. words what they mean. I guess I can’t say that. I can’t say that. I’m a prescriptivists sometimes, I guess but, but it’s I’m learning at least from what I was reading in preparation for this episode, the queerbaiting is not as broad as I thought it was, but that queerbaiting is specifically in media in entertainment. Either just hinting at or making jokes about a character’s sexuality or even, like retconning their sexuality a-la that bitch so we can’t say the name of any more in Harry Potter saying that Dumbledore was gay. When there’s no indication of Dumbledore being gay in the actual books.

Kyle Getz 31:41
yeah. You’re you’re speaking to, like, I was doing the same, like almost philosophical brainstorming of what does it mean and you’re right that, like, I didn’t realize how it was more narrow than than I had thought in my head, but like, I don’t know if this is what you’re gonna get to. This is not necessarily exactly a segment that I had but like, just a hot dude. Just being hot is not necessarily gay baiting,

Mike Johnson 32:11
right. So it is pink washing. And pink washing is a term it is used to describe a variety of marketing and political strategies aimed at promoting products, countries, people or entities through an appeal to gay friendliness in order to be perceived as progressive, modern and tolerant. The phrase was originally coined in 1992. Okay, so let’s, I’ll go into that in just a second. Okay, so pinkwashing is what I call gay baiting pretty regularly. Right? It’s, it’s the Nick Jonas in a Calvin Klein ad.

Kyle Getz 32:46
I wrote, I wrote down like, what is gay baiting is the general concept of Nick Jonas gaybaiting? I just started listing examples, and I was like, Oh, no, it’s not just one thing

Mike Johnson 32:59
and is it bad I don’t care.

Kyle Getz 33:02
Like Yeah, there’s the Calvin Klein ad. There’s the like, super sexy thing where he works out in Scream Queens like he, yeah, he is like, and what I realized is I don’t think he is but

Mike Johnson 33:16
well, and it also sort of implies that it’s corporate. Right, like i think i think it’s possible for an artist to pink wash some of their material. But this is more, it feels more targeted or nefarious, right? It’s, it’s, I want to sell more underwear, so I’m going to put Nick Jonas on the packaging. That’s not necessarily Nick Jonas. Nick Jonas’s fault, right. It’s It’s It’s CK is doing that.

Kyle Getz 33:55
Calvin Klein. Not Louis.

Mike Johnson 33:58
Right.

Kyle Getz 33:58
Um, uh Uh, I don’t think I totally understand the difference between gay baiting and pinkwashing then is pinkwashing purely like corporate stuff to sell shit?

Mike Johnson 34:10
So gay baiting is inside of the art right TV shows like rumors that they’re gonna have a gay character. Like that’s that’s in that zone. pinkwashing is anything but especially advertising. Arguably what we bitch about now in the community when it comes to pride is we’re bitching about pinkwashing we’re saying Bank of America don’t fucking pretend you give a good goddamn about gay people. When the only thing you do is show up with a rainbow float during June.

Kyle Getz 34:43
Yeah, I think about the I don’t know their actual beliefs. But what’s the vodka Absolut who puts the rainbow on their thing on their bottles during pride And it’s like well, do you actually support this or is it just we have rainbow so people are more likely to- It reminds me of actually related to kind of black protests and Black Lives Matter someone saying like someone posted like thank you for your infographic or your you know post about black lives in the matter now please show me a picture of your executive board, which I like that idea of like yeah, it’s very easy to pink wash and not actually have the- this is like it I think it’s important to remember that company’s goals a for profit company’s goal is to maximize long term shareholder value. that is the first day in finance like

Mike Johnson 35:35
I thought I was hard before now I’m really erect.

Kyle Getz 35:39
You love long term corporate, like that is the goal of any for profit company. And you may say, Oh, well you know, Tom’s had a good you know, mission of trying to give away a shoe like, if it is for profit, the goal is make money and any, any other goals are secondary. So

Mike Johnson 36:01
Interestingly enough, and then I’ll end this segment we can move on to pink washing the term pink washing originated from a non gay context. I just assumed that pink, Oh pink, that’s a gay color. That’s why they call it pink washing or it’s the pink triangle.

Kyle Getz 36:15
Was it women?

Mike Johnson 36:18
breast cancer. So the phrases originally coined in 1992 by Breast Cancer Action, which is an organization and they were identifying companies that claimed to support breast cancer while actually profiting from their illness.

Kyle Getz 36:33
Like what?

Mike Johnson 36:34
So breast cancer actually. Yeah, it’s a great question,

Kyle Getz 36:42
Mamogram machine makers?

Mike Johnson 36:46
well, it turned into something larger than that, in that in 2002. They launched the Think before you pink campaign. Because there was this period of time where the pink ribbon became so iconic, that companies were literally doing nothing. But putting a pink ribbon on their packaging

Kyle Getz 37:02
so I can’t I can only think about like abstinence campaigns saying-

Mike Johnson 37:07
Think before you pink? Or the gay version Think Before You stink. but they’re their thing before the pink campaign was to encourage consumers to ask critical questions before buying pink ribbon products and and hold corporations accountable for pinkwashing but then that that maybe because of the color Association it seems likely to me that that’s why it got attached to the similar marketing concept for gay people of looking nominally like you support the movement without actually doing anything but putting out a rainbow logo or whatever.

Kyle Getz 37:49
Yeah, this is actually I’m Wow, I’m thinking like, maybe because it’s Pride Month and I’m thinking a lot about corporate involvement in pride and kind of going back to the roots, I think. I mean, I’ve seen a lot of people posting about going back to the roots of pride and it’s a protest and, you know, how do companies and police fit in and a lot of people say they don’t, but my part of my disillusionment of corporate kind of I was in the past fiscally conservative. And that’s based on the economic theory, that perfect information. That’s part of that economic theory that it’s this assumption in a vacuum that people have perfect information and will make their decisions with all the information. And that’s just not true. And this is one of those things where it

Mike Johnson 38:35
also presumes that people will act in their own best interests.

Kyle Getz 38:39
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Mike Johnson 38:41
Which is not the case.

Kyle Getz 38:43
Hey Trump supporters. And log cabin Republicans. What’s up?

Mike Johnson 38:48
you could have a booth at my place if you want.

Kyle Getz 38:49
Aww. I would. Sorry, okay. No, um, the idea of perfect information like what the reason I thought of that is because like Throwing a pride flag throwing a pink ribbon on things that gives, like the idea that they support that cause. And then people don’t go I don’t go and research the full details. I don’t have perfect information. I have that surface level thing that they’re presenting to me.And in the past, I’m trying to be better at not making that assumption that it’s true. But, you know, a lot of people will assume that’s the case.

Mike Johnson 39:23
Yeah. Yeah, I know. I do. it’s easy. Sometimes just say, oh, Rainbow great and then go there. Or buy that.

Kyle Getz 39:30
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, and there’s there’s also the part where it’s like, having a rainbow vodka is that’s putting a rainbow vodka in a store that people see. So there’s like a little bit good with that. But you know, so it’s a little bit messy, but. Okay.

Mike Johnson 39:49
Sorry, I forgot one last term to throw in here is liberal homophobia. And the idea is that from a capitalism standpoint, liberal homophobia is the reason that we have to be careful in the marketplace in how we market things. And liberal homophobia is the acceptance of homosexuality as long as it remains hidden. The person that says I’m down with gay people, as long as they don’t have to see them kissing.

Kyle Getz 40:20
You can do whatever you want in the privacy of your home kind of implies. Don’t hold hands in public or whatever.

Mike Johnson 40:27
Correct. So

Kyle Getz 40:30
that feels very TERF-y which I know you don’t like that word, but like, it feels like oh, well, I’m a feminist. So that feels very liberal buuuut

Mike Johnson 40:40
Yep, yep, absolutely. And I don’t know I’m on the fence about maybe this is my fiscal conservatism coming through. I’m on the fence about whether that justifies it or not, like Target, changing their logo to be a rainbow and no more in order to like That’s gonna please liberal homophobes, liberal homophobia, right? Because they get to say, oh, rainbow, it’s pride. Yeah, I love gay people, but they don’t have to actually see it or confront it or internalize it or understand it.

Kyle Getz 41:12
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like putting out a statement about Black Lives Matter. That’s very easy to put out your press release or your whatever. And you’re like, yeah, we’re down. And then that’s all you do. Or I mean, the joke is always like, during this month, during Pride Month. Happy Pride, Mike.

Mike Johnson 41:31
Happy Pride Kyle.

Kyle Getz 41:32
I don’t think we well, we said that earlier this month. But um, yeah. I just realized, like, especially during this segment, we both talked a lot about capitalism and corporations. And at first I was like, Oh, these things are just happened to remind me of that. But yeah, that is inherent in the discussion about gay baiting is is making money like what’s coming like what’s what’s happening behind The scenes and a lot of it, the root of it is trying to make money off of it. And that’s we’re trying to get attention or promotion or publicity or whatever. But that’s the kind of behind the scenes what’s happening and why are they doing that? And capitalism kind of relies on how they’re presented.

Mike Johnson 42:16
Yeah, for sure.

Kyle Getz 42:18
I want to talk about kind of going along with what we’re doing, trying to figure out the difference between like, what is just like a hot dude and what is actual gay baiting? I wrote down a list of things that I thought are not gay baiting, and things that I think are gay,

Mike Johnson 42:35
Are we’re gonna fight.

Kyle Getz 42:36
Probably

Mike Johnson 42:37
Great.

Kyle Getz 42:38
So this is a list of things that I thought were not gaybaiting. Okay. And I tried to include a variety just because I think, you know, different types. I mean, I did write down the general concept of Nick Jonas, which we’ve talked about now.

Mike Johnson 42:51
So yummy.

Kyle Getz 42:51
Okay. I went

Mike Johnson 42:54
What’s he up to these days, though? I haven’t seen him in a while.

Kyle Getz 42:57
The Jonas. Brothers released an album not too long ago. Was it a year ago now?

Mike Johnson 43:06
It’s I it’s amazing that I find him so fucking hot despite his music.

Kyle Getz 43:15
You don’t like theJoBros music?

Mike Johnson 43:17
I liked a couple of songs off of that one album that had Close?

Kyle Getz 43:23
Yeah, with Tove Lo

Mike Johnson 43:25
Yeah, with Tove Lo, which I’m realizing now that was like she was carrying that song.

Kyle Getz 43:31
Do you like Tove Lo? Have I made you like her? Do you?

Mike Johnson 43:34
I do, I do. Yeah, I wouldn’t call myself a super fan and I she’s in that space of like, I always really like her and then I’m like, I asked somebody who is this and then the make judgey eyes me and They say it’s Tove Lo

Kyle Getz 43:46
my that person every time?

Mike Johnson 43:48
Not every time.

Kyle Getz 43:51
90% is not every time. She is bisexual maybe?

Mike Johnson 43:58
Huh?

Kyle Getz 43:59
She’s some kind of queer for sure. I love her so much. She’s so good. Um, okay, so the first one I put on the list of not gay baiting is I’ve been listening to the Selena Gomez album Rare, which is number one on the Billboard charts when it came out

Mike Johnson 44:15
probably medium rare by now.

Kyle Getz 44:21
You’re kind of funny this episode. you should do this on every episode. Are you trying this time? Okay, so she has a lot of their songs. gays like her in general, but she does a song fun where she talks about like, I’m not that into you, but you look like fun like that kind of and that feels very gay to me. Like listening to that song. It’s beyond just, hey, this is a Britney Spears album or a Kesha album that’s already kind of Madonna album. That’s kind of gay already. It feels very like. I want to have sexual fun with you. wow I made that I made hooking up sound the least exciting as possible. I’d like to have sexual

Mike Johnson 45:02
I would like to have intercourse with you sir

Kyle Getz 45:04
I would like to enjoy sexual relations with your penis. Even that would get me off right now. Anything. If you’ve been waiting to shoot your shot.

Mike Johnson 45:16
Oh god right in your eye.

Kyle Getz 45:19
If I was so lucky, the sweetest thing in porn, when a guy gets a facial, and then the the guy that is giving the facial like wipes the cum out of his eye, it’s like that’s so romantic. It’s just so sweet. Okay, Selina Gomez.

Kyle Getz 45:40
Anyway, that song feels so specific and targeted to gay people or a gay experience. But it’s a song about hooking up. It is not. She doesn’t talk about being gay. She’s not even hinting at being gay. It’s just relatable to gay people. So this is where I’m trying to like, figure out the line of it so that I don’t think is gay baiting. Great. Um, when Britney and Madonna kissed Do you remember this their performance? Yeah, like in the 90s or whatever it is.

Mike Johnson 46:09
I don’t think it was the 90s I think it was 2000

Kyle Getz 46:11
Oh, probably I don’t think Britney Spears was a thing until later.

Mike Johnson 46:16
That was in that time when they were MTV in particular was pushing hard The idea that Madonna was passing the torch to Britney. She was gonna be the next Madonna because Madonna ordained it so

Kyle Getz 46:27
in that moment, they talked about like her, okay, but the thing that they didn’t show

Mike Johnson 46:32
I was straight then and I was paying attention.

Kyle Getz 46:36
Because it’s two chicks and that was hot. And what people don’t know or don’t realize is that Madonna actually kissed Christina Aguilera. But they cut away after the Brittney/Madonna kiss to Justin Timberlake to get his reaction. So people actually don’t realize there was there were two lesbian kisses

Mike Johnson 46:59
interesting

Kyle Getz 47:00
I guess it wasn’t lesbian if they’re not lesbians, but anyway, So I’m saying that’s I don’t think that’s gay bate. I think that is you gratuitous is what you called it you know i think that could be Shock Value trying to get media riled up whatever but I don’t think that’s gaybaiting.

Mike Johnson 47:19
interesting.

Kyle Getz 47:20
Do you disagree?

Mike Johnson 47:22
we’re approaching the line I don’t know where that line is and the thing I don’t understand I guess is if not gay baiting, then why? right like if…

Kyle Getz 47:42
let me go to the next example

Mike Johnson 47:43
K great.

Kyle Getz 47:44
Um, this i thought was like the epitome like the benchmark for gay porn like gay for pay. To me that is not gay baiting. And before I would have said maybe or Yes, I don’t think it’s gay baiting because They are in a gay porn. And they know that porn is for you to look at and jerk off to and some of them are even out about I am not gay and I’m doing this and we’re like, cool. I’m gonna jerk off to you anyway like, to me that is, there is no mal intent. There is no like, they are just I’m a hot dude and we want to see it. Like there’s no lie or deceit or even if they’re pretending to be gay, they’re not they never said I’m definitely gay. everybody watching me be gay and do gay stuff on this porn later. Like, to me that’s a good example of something people think is gay baiting. I don’t think it is.

Mike Johnson 48:39
Interesting. Okay. I think I disagree with that.

Kyle Getz 48:42
Okay, tell me, talk to me.

Mike Johnson 48:45
From that person’s perspective, they are thinking there are gays in the world I want their money. I’m gonna expose myself and do gay shit so that they give me that money. But that feels problematic.

Kyle Getz 49:06
Oh, probably I didn’t expect you to say problematic. Tell me more.

Mike Johnson 49:10
the ethics of that seem very questionable to me. Like,

Kyle Getz 49:14
why?

Mike Johnson 49:15
Because they’re not gay.

Kyle Getz 49:16
But what does it matter? They’re like, they’re they’re not. It’s almost like acting like you’re not actually the character like just because you’re not actually a law and order. SVU detective doesn’t mean Mariska Hargitay like needs to, you know, like,

Mike Johnson 49:31
That’s true, but we need queer actors to play queer roles, Kyle.

Kyle Getz 49:34
Sure. We never extended that to gay porn. Now that I Think about it. I don’t I just don’t think it is because there’s no intent to deceive. And we don’t care like that’s the like. Also, “oh, stepbrother. What Why are you touching my dick?” Like we don’t think that’s real. We don’t think that like one of them is British. Like you’re not stepbrothers, I don’t believe you. You know, like, but we go along with it.

Mike Johnson 50:08
Yeah. Only one of you is circumcised. What parents do that?

Kyle Getz 50:11
yeah. They like the first time. They’re like oooops. Maybe not. Or they were like, let’s just see. Let’s see what happens.

Mike Johnson 50:18
I know this is on your list or not. But how about the opposite? What about? I’ve seen multiple porins where clearly gay actors and I know that they’re gay because I follow them on social media and talk about their boyfriend all the time Playing straight in a porn. Is that Gaybaiting

Kyle Getz 50:32
Do you watch him like, do it in her, in her?

Mike Johnson 50:35
no, no, no. A gay actor pretending to be straight in a gay porn.

Kyle Getz 50:41
I’m so straight. I’ve never done anything before. Like that. To me. That’s the same thing. It’s

Mike Johnson 50:45
not gay baiting?

Kyle Getz 50:46
No!

Mike Johnson 50:47
Okay. Just asking let’s.

Kyle Getz 50:50
I don’t Yeah, I was like, very offended by that. Back off from my gay porn. Okay, so maybe the Flipside will also help in this discussion what I think

Mike Johnson 51:03
Yeah, let’s flip flop.

Kyle Getz 51:03
Let’s- God dammit. Um, first one Finn and po in Star Wars.

Mike Johnson 51:12
Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. So I think that’s the ex post facto kind of gaybaiting. Right like there was nothing explicitly gay about those characters in that movie. The actors said we played it gay which I actually kind of find offensive now watching the movie because like if you if you were trying you failed and and then but to throw that out there to try to get gay people to watch this mega blockbuster movie is horseshit.

Kyle Getz 51:42
yes. 100% like Yeah, and I think that’s like so that’s even on the extreme side to me, having a actual gay character but having a two dimensional gay character also feels like gay baiting to me. Having a there are some examples I feel like I disagreed with like, just because you have a gay character in a show does not make it gay baiting. And just

Mike Johnson 52:03
what about tokenization?

Kyle Getz 52:05
And that’s what I mean, I think in the same vein of like two dimensional characters like

Mike Johnson 52:11
I think it’s automatically gay baiting.

Kyle Getz 52:14
Having a gay character

Mike Johnson 52:15
having a two dimensional gay character

Kyle Getz 52:17
Oh, yes,

Mike Johnson 52:18
yes. If you just throw in Hey, this is Dave he’s gay and that’s it.

Kyle Getz 52:23
Yep he’s there to say oh girl and that’s it. Yeah, yeah. I think some things that I read said that like just making a character gay for no reason and not having- like that’s something I like and I don’t think that’s gay baiting I want more characters that just happened to be gay and that doesn’t have anything to do with their storyline.

Mike Johnson 52:47
Okay,

Kyle Getz 52:48
like why why does the default need to be you’re straight until proven gay? Like, I want characters to be randomly gay and not have a coming out storyline and not have I fought with my dad storyline and not have an HIV storyline like they’re just a gay spy.

Mike Johnson 53:04
Okay? I think that they need to do something other than just wear the label gay though.

Kyle Getz 53:12
why why do you think that. this is weird because I really like and appreciate and want that representation and that’s just interesting it’s so different from you

Mike Johnson 53:27
maybe because it just feels like halfway or something like like straight people literally have everything, every relationship every romance every onscreen kiss, blah, blah blah and there are exceptions I’m saying every into like hyperbolic sense and, like if you’re just going to take a flat character and make them gay or a complex character and make them gay, but not see their gayness why not take that extra step and make their sexual actually part of the character and not just a moniker.

Kyle Getz 54:04
But see if you’re saying like straight people have everything, like straight people also have straight characters that don’t go around doing straight things, or just straight because they’re straight again, because that’s the default. So why do they get? Why do they get the default? Why can’t some of them be gay?

Mike Johnson 54:22
That’s true. I buy that.

Kyle Getz 54:24
Did I convince you

Mike Johnson 54:25
Yeah sure

Kyle Getz 54:27
it’s the most we’re gonna get out of you, which I’m very happy about. Okay, these are two more definitive examples I saw written about and I think are good. Kind of,

Mike Johnson 54:37
please say James Franco. Please say James Franco. Okay, go ahead.

Kyle Getz 54:41
Man. I don’t care what he does. He can gay bate me so hard.

Mike Johnson 54:44
Okay. I want his brother.,

Kyle Getz 54:47
Dave Franco? Have you seen the video? Go fuck yourself?

Mike Johnson 54:51
Yes.

Kyle Getz 54:51
Oh my god, right. I like then backed up and then backed up. It worked for me. Okay, that one is the the hundred. Have you heard of that show on The CW? I have never heard

Mike Johnson 55:06
about that. Um, the Greek warriors right?

Kyle Getz 55:09
Yep. Yep. It’s like after a third survived No, it’s CW show I don’t really know it’s about a so Lexa was a lesbian character they touted themselves as being a very LGBT inclusive you know progressive TV show particularly because of her they talked about the show runners and everyone posted about talked about her being in the finale of this one season. turns out she was not in the finale she got killed off Oh, go back in time this is spoilers.

Mike Johnson 55:45
Hahaha

Kyle Getz 55:47
Whoops. Um, she was killed off

Mike Johnson 55:49
If somebody having CW show the hundred ruined for them if that’s gonna ruin their day. I don’t care.

Kyle Getz 56:01
Your your problems are- you’re lucky to- okay um

Mike Johnson 56:06
you’re an unsalvageable human

Kyle Getz 56:10
burn um, she was killed off mid season she was killed right- And it gets worse like that alone would have been like what they knew like the time that they were talking about on social media and promoting that she was in the finale they knew she wasn’t there they already filmed thing where she was killed off that alone would have been a good example much less she was killed right after having sex with a woman so like there’s that kill your gays idea or the like lesbians don’t survive it like particularly after they use the phrase consummate, which sounds felt gross, but it’s not

Mike Johnson 56:46
Isn’t that like a kind of soup.

Kyle Getz 56:49
I love it when it’s chunky. And it wasn’t even her standing up for someone or it wasn’t part of the storyline. Like there was just a random bullet that caught her and she got it so it was like didn’t even

Mike Johnson 57:04
weird why do that?

Kyle Getz 57:07
Why do that? Yeah um so that was a weird one that then like fans didn’t like and and to me that shows the intent behind it is really important because the intent behind like they were pushing and promoting their LGBT friendliness and either lied I forget if it was lied or just misconstrued or whatever the the ending to get people to stick around and watch and that feels like what gay baiting you know perfect example of that.

Mike Johnson 57:36
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 57:37
Another example is again in a show I’ve never watched Rizzoli and Isles you’ve seen-

Mike Johnson 57:42
No

Kyle Getz 57:42
Have you heard of it?

Mike Johnson 57:43
No

Kyle Getz 57:43
Oh, I’ve at least heard of it

Mike Johnson 57:45
on what network I don’t even

Kyle Getz 57:47
you know, channel four. I don’t know. I don’t know. There was a BuzzFeed article by Sarah Carlin that said it’s the gayest non gay show on television. Which James barr you should sue them for non gay um but it was like this must watch lesbian show with no actual lesbians because the two had this weird kind of subtext of lesbianism that that never actually appeared on screen and what kind of put the nail in the vagina is on TV Guide whoever plays Rizzoli, I don’t know either them said that, quote, sometimes we’ll do a take for that demo. I’ll brush by her (her co-stars) I’ll brush by her blouse or maybe linger for a moment, as long as we’re not being accused of being homophobic, which is not in any way true and completely infuriating, I’m okay with it. So the idea of intentionally This is almost the Foe and Pin. Nope. Finn and Poe. But like a more extreme of like, I’m intentionally doing things on the screen to try to make us look more lesbian when we’re not.

Mike Johnson 59:02
MmHmm.

Kyle Getz 59:04
That, to me is a classic example of gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 59:06
Mm hmm. Okay. I’ll buy that.

Kyle Getz 59:10
Those are my examples.

Mike Johnson 59:11
I think they’re good ones.

Kyle Getz 59:12
Thank you. I look them up on the internet.

Mike Johnson 59:15
We covered a lot of ground that I was sort of maybe going to talk about. that’s okay. So I’ll just boil this down. We have to talk about I Kissed A Girl. Gay baiting or no?

Kyle Getz 59:28
no,

Mike Johnson 59:29
no?

Kyle Getz 59:29
in fact on my list of no’s I realized I was talking a lot and still did but that was on my list of no’s.

Mike Johnson 59:37
Okay. Defend your answer.

Kyle Getz 59:40
Okay.

Mike Johnson 59:42
Because here the prosecution will go first. She’s not bi, she wrote this song just to be salacious. She is using queer sexuality To sell records, the prosecution rest.

Kyle Getz 1:00:04
The prosecution’s so tired, it rests.

Mike Johnson 1:00:07
I’m talking about Katy Perry song I kissed a girl too. I don’t know if we said that at all.

Kyle Getz 1:00:16
Um, Katherine Perry. I worry that I’m- going to say this, There is the kind of performative aspect of female sexuality that has been studied and confirmed of, it is a thing that women do

Mike Johnson 1:00:38
greater fluidity.

Kyle Getz 1:00:40
Sure, yep. And actually, the data I’m not going to go into all this. It’s actually a thing that happens more often in men than we kind of realize but there is like an aspect of female sexuality that can include things like making out with someone, even if you’re not bi, so partly, it’s like speaks to that. concept that I hope my boyfriend don’t mind it like, you know if you make out with another girl, but you’re in a relationship was that cheating? Or was it fun and fine like? So I think she I think that song spoke to that concept which at the time was probably newer or less discussed. Also, I don’t think this is for me the similar thing of like actors like, I think you can be a character in your songs. I think you, you don’t have to be. You don’t have to actually represent what your song is. Your song can be about a character that you’re playing, and a situation that’s not real and so she doesn’t have to be by to sing about having a boyfriend and kissing a girl.

Mike Johnson 1:01:49
That’s interesting.

Kyle Getz 1:01:50
The defense takes a nap.

Mike Johnson 1:01:52
So when asked about her own sexuality, Perry told Santa Barbara magazine quote, I like to kiss boys, but there is no doubt in my mind. If Angelina Jolie or gizelle boonton came a callin, who wouldn’t pick her up? Perry told the New gay another publication that she had never actually kissed a girl and is heterosexual. She is quoted as saying quote, yeah, it’s fantasy. It’s a song about curiosity. However, in a separate interview in 2010, Perry stated to a female interviewer that she has kissed several girls. Perry later admitted to Vanity Fair in early of may 2011. that the reason she did not discuss it honestly at first was because a couple of sleazy male journalists made her uncomfortable quote, so I said no, I hadn’t experienced it even though I had because I didn’t like where the guys were taking the interviews.

Kyle Getz 1:02:42
hm

Mike Johnson 1:02:42
Have I talked very much about how much I fucking hate Katy Perry.

Kyle Getz 1:02:46
I don’t think so. now is your- The floor is yours

Mike Johnson 1:02:54
for the same reason that I hate Taylor Swift. Like I just I’m not buying any of It. I think it’s just cold, calculated, packaged shittiness and it really, I don’t know, I’m not I’m not buying it.

Kyle Getz 1:03:14
I was gonna say something that was gonna be real smart.

Mike Johnson 1:03:16
In February of 2018, online glamour article, Perry express the following about the song, quote, we’ve really changed conversationally in the past 10 years, we’ve come a long way. bisexuality wasn’t as talked about back then. or any type of fluidity. If I had to write that song again, I probably would make an edit on it. Lyrically, it has a couple of stereotypes in it, your mind changes so much in 10 years and you grow so much what’s true for you can evolve.

Kyle Getz 1:03:45
Okay, what I just realized that I’m very intelligent for thinking of is that part of this, Part of the difficulty in this is a lot of it comes down to intent, which you can’t always see it. some of the examples I gave where like, we specifically lied about a thing, like so clearly in the intent was to deceive. So I think that I guess a girl could go one of two ways, just like bisexuals. It could like it could be an exploration of curiosity and female sexuality. And if that was an authentic, did she really write that song? That’s this is part of the packaging that I don’t believe she writes her own songs, but whatever.

Mike Johnson 1:04:26
This is one of those situations where there’s four songwriters and two producers on the credits. So No, she didn’t.

Kyle Getz 1:04:33
Okay. Yeah. But if whoever wrote the song is actually exploring that concept that’s very different than someone who intentionally specifically writes a song to pander to gay audiences to sell records. And, and it’s hard to know. And it and maybe it’s actually a little bit of both. So does that make it? Yeah, so maybe I like in that middle ground where I don’t know for sure I’m defaulting to No, it’s not until proven gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 1:05:01
Okay.

Kyle Getz 1:05:02
Which may not be. I guess I like have a high like high bar for what is considered gay baiting? Yeah.

Mike Johnson 1:05:09
Okay. Oh, I’ll buy that. Do you have more?

Kyle Getz 1:05:13
Okay, well since I mentioned it I’ll just go ahead and throw this out there. We don’t have to talk about it but there is a study by Derek do Nope. Dr. Eric who I’m not gonna go there Derrick Anderson, who usually research sports and masculinity. Who asked. Someone asked about if he knew about gay chicken. Where like dudes get closer and closer and closer to kissing and then like whoever

Mike Johnson 1:05:39
Oh, I thought gay chicken was we put a hand on their knee and then you move up towards their dick

Kyle Getz 1:05:44
That’s a thing but mostly I’ve seen it in terms of making out you lean your heads closer and closer together until like

Mike Johnson 1:05:53
mine involves heads too.

Kyle Getz 1:05:56
There’s something like in the UK they had to stop playing it because everyone would just Kiss like there was no like, anyway, but he did a study of 145 students in it 89% said they were happy to kiss a man on the lips in friendship. And okay, and 40% said they had engaged in sustained kissing for either shock value or for a laugh.

Mike Johnson 1:06:21
God Bless America

Kyle Getz 1:06:23
and God bless straight dudes kissing. Okay, that’s the last thing I wanted to put it out there.

Mike Johnson 1:06:31
Did we do it?

Kyle Getz 1:06:32
Yeah, yeah hope tipsy mcstumbles. Let us know if we did it

Mike Johnson 1:06:36
Yeah you paid for this shit

Kyle Getz 1:06:36
Yeah,

Mike Johnson 1:06:39
Make out with me. Should we take a break?

Kyle Getz 1:06:42
Let’s take a break.

Mike Johnson 1:06:43
Let’s take a break. And Arthur.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:45
BREAK MUSIC: “This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!”

Mike Johnson 1:06:53
Are we back?

Kyle Getz 1:06:54
We’re back.

Mike Johnson 1:06:54
]We’re back.

Kyle Getz 1:06:56
You idid that so coyly, I didn’t see it coming. We’re gonna do our gayest and straightest

Mike Johnson 1:07:02
we’re gonna do our gayest and straightest, but first Our website is GayishPodcast.com

Kyle Getz 1:07:06
our social media which are on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter

Mike Johnson 1:07:10
your mom

Kyle Getz 1:07:11
we’re on your mom. Watch out! what is it something in the pink?

Mike Johnson 1:07:16
Two in the pink, one in the stink?

Kyle Getz 1:07:16
No, What did we just say before avoid the pink? Oh yeah.

Mike Johnson 1:07:22
Oh yeah, think before you pink

Kyle Getz 1:07:25
okay @gayishpodcast and we have like a Facebook group which is cool and we have a discord which is cool. So check those out too

Mike Johnson 1:07:35
our hotline you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails is 5855GAYISH that’s 5855429474 standard rates apply

Kyle Getz 1:07:43
in our emails gayishpodcast@gmail.com

Mike Johnson 1:07:46
our physical addresses p o box 19882. Seattle, Washington 98109. Also, while you’re talking about discord, Mm hmm. You You can get access via our discord or our Facebook group. But we actually have so many gaymers with a Y that we now have a dedicated Minecraft.

Kyle Getz 1:08:11
With a why?

Mike Johnson 1:08:12
Yeah, haha. bitch. we have we have a dedicated minecraft server and a dedicated terrarium server

Kyle Getz 1:08:19
wow I didn’t I knew about World of Warcraft I didn’t know those other things

Mike Johnson 1:08:22
yeah. And and then we play World of Warcraft as a guild on Wednesday nights and it made me realize like, in case people need that extra incentive because I’m awesome you should know you can voice chat with me on discord because we play like we talk we bullshit while we’re playing.

Kyle Getz 1:08:39
Can are there enough spots in your guild that people anyone can, I don’t know how it works

Mike Johnson 1:08:46
well, we’re gonna have to fix that.

Kyle Getz 1:08:47
Oh, yeah, we at some point. I’m gonna play we’re gonna like video my first world Warcraft

Mike Johnson 1:08:54
you’re gonna love it

Kyle Getz 1:08:54
but I don’t know. I remember when I was in like high school. I played Halo for the first And I just fell off whatever plane or weird starship we were on. And then I was like, that’s it. anyway gayest and straightest?

Mike Johnson 1:09:09
Oh, no. Yeah, I do have a couple of other things. The four R’s review, rubscribe and recommend.

Kyle Getz 1:09:15
Oh, yeah, you told me right before this we got a shitty review

Mike Johnson 1:09:18
we got a shitty review, So we need at least three more than can cancel it out.

Kyle Getz 1:09:23
Are we still at a 4.5?

Mike Johnson 1:09:25
I don’t

Kyle Getz 1:09:25
don’t it doesn’t.

Mike Johnson 1:09:27
And the last thing for scheduling so in just a couple of days after this airs, we are doing a live stream on Saturday June 27 at 6pm pacific time. You can catch that on Facebook Live if you want the video feed via our Facebook page or you can get the audio on pride48.com because this weekend is pride 48 live streaming weekend. Gayish as well as many, many I think 29 shows will be scheduled that whole weekend. So if you want to hear other queer podcasters and other great shows, this is the weekend to do it again. Pride48.com.

Kyle Getz 1:10:06
Yep. Yeah, yeah, we’ve done this. This will be the third year that we’ve done this so yeah, it’s it’s really cool to have like, just back to back so many, you know, queer podcasts and they have their own discussion group that everyone logs in and talks about things and yeah, so check it out

Mike Johnson 1:10:23
which is also on Discord. They’ve moved to discord for their chat functions. So discord is the place to be.

Kyle Getz 1:10:29
Wow, yeah. Cool.

Mike Johnson 1:10:31
Let’s do a gay straight.

Kyle Getz 1:10:32
Okay, cool.

Mike Johnson 1:10:33
I went first last time.

Kyle Getz 1:10:34
Oh, me. Okay. So my straightest is my shopping list. I think my my my food shopping list grocery list. I’m just gonna read you the first one. Sour cream, steak, ham, pizza, spaghetti, butter. Those are the top things on List. That just, to me all those things do not feel like like so many carbs so many meat like that just

Mike Johnson 1:11:10
I’m proud of you

Kyle Getz 1:11:10
thank you

Mike Johnson 1:11:11
the fact that you have a shopping list at all

Kyle Getz 1:11:12
I know right it’s not like frozen pizza, another frozen pizza. my Gayish I’m so excited about this one. like yesterday I saw dude like getting buzzed into my building you know called in on the call box

Mike Johnson 1:11:31
Did you want to buzz him?

Kyle Getz 1:11:34
Eh. but I just in my mind I was like, it was like 2am which is usually when I take my dog for is like last outing of the night. I was like, you’re here for a hookup and but I didn’t know so like, you know, he got buzzed in and I walked in like I waited then I went in behind him. We both were on the elevator together and as like, and then I kind of like I think I was like sly about it like saw on his phone, grinder like You could tell he was not sure which floor to push.

Mike Johnson 1:12:03
Yeah, yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:12:03
I could. I ended up seeing him being a grinder and I just wanted to be like, have fun. Like, I hope you know, I just wanted to be like, I support you like, I get it and go do it. But like, obviously I didn’t because that’s weird, but just the fact that I knew that this was a grinder hookup.

Mike Johnson 1:12:21
That’s all of the pieces are coming together. Very clear what’s happening. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Getz 1:12:28
Just recently on that Patreon call Someone’s Grindr notification went off

Mike Johnson 1:12:33
yeah. Yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:12:34
I love that so much.

Mike Johnson 1:12:35
Apparently, that turned into an actual date. Dating,

Kyle Getz 1:12:39
like dating?

Mike Johnson 1:12:40
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 1:12:41
Wow, good work. If you’re a Patreon member, you’re guaranteed to get a date. Cool.

Mike Johnson 1:12:47
the straightest thing about me this week is just talking to my fraternity brothers. I had a conference call this week to meet a bunch of new staff that just started and I like because I’m a district governor. So I have like

Kyle Getz 1:12:58
power.

Mike Johnson 1:13:00
Yeah. And so there’s there’s new guys that are coming on staff or that are just starting to work in my district and we had a conference call to talk and I just I heard it. I heard myself being just so straight. And

Kyle Getz 1:13:13
do you have an example of how you talked?

Mike Johnson 1:13:15
Oh, God. No, No, I can’t I don’t think I can. Just happens accidentally, you know, accidentally, accidentally happens accidentally. But then the gayest thing about me this week is talking to my fraternity brothers. I we have a gay fraternity brother group on Facebook. It’s like 1000 of us and

Kyle Getz 1:13:40
hey sig eps

Mike Johnson 1:13:41
Yep, SigEps. every Friday during quarantine. We’ve had a happy hour and it’s just the cattiest, bitchiest. Gayest stuff like I heard one of our one of our brothers that comes to the the happy hour was telling us about How he and this dudeWe’re trying to set some kind of record and he got railed 28 times in four days.

Kyle Getz 1:14:06
Wow.

Mike Johnson 1:14:07
And then we like there was a round of applause

Kyle Getz 1:14:11
Good him.

Mike Johnson 1:14:12
Yeah, yeah. Anyway,

Kyle Getz 1:14:14
I haven’t railed myself 28 times.

Mike Johnson 1:14:18
True story.

Kyle Getz 1:14:20
do you have the listeners

Mike Johnson 1:14:21
I do. This week’s listeners case the straightest is from a Eurk from Germany. He said if I can’t say that it’s Chris from Germany. His gayest is just painting my nails black with holographic glitter on top. His straightest is my husband and I bought the same sweater. We’re becoming an old straight couple.

Kyle Getz 1:14:44
Like the, the accidental twinning of straight couples.

Mike Johnson 1:14:48
Yeah. And there’s something about like, matching sweater shopping that just says- I’m not gonna say that. I was gonna say give me your gay card but we don’t say that.

Kyle Getz 1:14:59
No, we don’t say that.

Mike Johnson 1:15:01
So that’s it. Thank you to tipsy MCstumbles for being hot and suggesting this episode.

Kyle Getz 1:15:07
Thank you to the general concept of Nick Jonas.

Mike Johnson 1:15:10
Yes, he’s third on my list.

Kyle Getz 1:15:12
Oh, shut up. I got there.

Mike Johnson 1:15:14
And and and thank you to Arthur, whoever he is.

Kyle Getz 1:15:19
Getting very familiar with him.

Mike Johnson 1:15:21
So that’s it. This has been Gayish. I’m Mike Johnson.

Kyle Getz 1:15:23
I’m Kyle Getz until next week. Be butch be fabulous. Be you.

Mike Johnson 1:15:27
See you next week.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:28
OUTRO: INSTRUMENTAL VERSION OF INTRO MUSIC

Kyle Getz 1:15:44
Are we gay baiting?

Mike Johnson 1:15:46
Why?

Kyle Getz 1:15:46
I dunno, we’re gay.

Mike Johnson 1:15:48
Oh, and baiting a lot.

We follow up on episode 139 (Surrogacy) to see what it’s like so far for gay dads raising their newborn baby. Joseph, Brandon, and baby Topher Peters-Mathews join us to talk about Fathers’ Day.

In this episode: News- 2:33 || Main Topic (Fathers’ Day)- 22:21 || Guests (the Peters-Mathews Family)- 35:49 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:06:00

On the Patreon bonus segment, you’ll hear how Joseph felt about his sermon being used in the Gay White Privilege episode. Support us and get bonus stuff at the same time: www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.

Todd Masterson, known on Instagram as @gayfatfriend, shares how Instagays like Matt Dempsey feel about his account. Plus, Mike and Kyle get uncomfortably personal.

In this episode: News- 2:33 || Main Topic (Fat)- 19:34 || Guest (Todd Masterson)- 1:13:09 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:31:01

On Monday’s bonus segment, fat shaming. To access this segment, plus tons of bonus content, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Mike Johnson 0:00
[intro music, sung] When you know that you are queer, but your favorite drink is beer that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish . Life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.

Mike Johnson 0:21
Hello everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.

Kyle Getz 0:24
The podcast that’s really two smaller podcasts standing on each other’s shoulders in a trench coat.

Mike Johnson 0:31
Oh, yeah, like little Gremlins.

Kyle Getz 0:35
Or little children trying to get into an R rated movie.

Mike Johnson 0:37
You know, I Mike Johnson.

Kyle Getz 0:39
I’m Kyle Getz

Mike Johnson 0:40
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality and today

Kyle Getz 0:44
Today

Mike Johnson 0:45
We’re gonna talk about fat.

Kyle Getz 0:46
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 0:47
Not p-h-a-t fat either.

Kyle Getz 0:49
No.

Mike Johnson 0:50
More like

Kyle Getz 0:51
regular fat.

Mike Johnson 0:52
Yeah. Yeah, like the kind of Tuesday or the blunts that you roll. I don’t know.

Kyle Getz 1:01
How often do you say the phrase fat blunt Mike?

Mike Johnson 1:05
roll a flat- roll of fat blunt. clearly often enough that I just fucked it up .

Kyle Getz 1:11
But first,

Mike Johnson 1:12
but first, are you ready for some news?

Kyle Getz 1:14
No.

Mike Johnson 1:15
No. Okay, great. Yeah, sure

Kyle Getz 1:17
There are two things I wanted to say first. One is one of our listeners and dare I say friends, Daniele, who’s been on indirectly on our Patreon segment was on a podcast called Ask Auntie talking about being a drag queer, which drag queer was a new word for me and I really enjoy it. So check that out. Their interview is- you can find it under the name misunderstood.

Mike Johnson 1:49
Just like pink.

Kyle Getz 1:50
Just like- there’s no z in this unforch, but the other one is the most adorable thing. Someone in our Facebook group mentioned that they’re getting married.

Mike Johnson 2:01
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 2:02
And I feel like a newspaper they’ve been reached out to confirm for comment, but have not yet replied. So I won’t say their names but

Mike Johnson 2:13
Gayish could not reach them for comment

Kyle Getz 2:14
cannot be reached. Yeah, so that’s that was really cool and really adorable. So congrats to the you know, you know who you are.

Mike Johnson 2:23
Yeah. And and any other gays that got married.

Kyle Getz 2:25
Sure. Yeah. You all count.Okay, those are the things I wanted to say up front. You can do the news now.

Mike Johnson 2:32
Okay, great. Um, first.

Kyle Getz 2:39
(vocalizes the word “news” annoyingly)

Mike Johnson 2:40
Okay, great. We’re back to this now.

Kyle Getz 2:43
Gayish: great, we’re back to this now. That was drunk Cookie Monster sings the news theme song.

Mike Johnson 2:51
Yeah, yeah, a lot like sober Cookie Monster but less slutty. I guess. I don’t know. Okay, So first out of the gate we need to talk about Billy Santoro. Have you been following seen heard of know what’s going on with Billy Santoro?

Kyle Getz 3:06
Yeah, yeah.

Mike Johnson 3:08
yeah. An American gay porn star based in Australia. And yeah, he real racist. he tweeted on June the first he tweeted: lol America exclamation point. lol you let your blacks loot as a way of protest Wake the fuck up shoot first.”

Kyle Getz 3:35
Ewwwww

Mike Johnson 3:36
yeah, yeah so he’s real he’s real he’s real bad

Kyle Getz 3:44
And following that I saw all these tweets about like here other racist porn stars with like quotes and shit they’ve said and done and actually I retweeted on with the caption “don’t jerk off the racism” if you want to check out all the racist porn stars On Gayish Twitter, @gayishpodcast.

Mike Johnson 4:03
yeah, yeah, well, so it’s interesting also that like, cancel culture is for sure thing and 99% of the time, I totally agree with it. And I agree with it in this instance as well. So JustForFans, which is very similar to onlyfans, they were brought into this they were looped, and on Tuesday, June the second they tweeted, his account is gone. Quote, policing is a slippery slope and we won’t be puppets to cancel culture. This was not debatable though. It was vile. BLM. In parentheses, Black Lives Matter. like we needed a fucking translation. They also earlier had said justforfans stands fully behind Black Lives Matter our models of color and our entire user base in wishing this cycle of violence against people of color would end. Okay, so I knew most of that until I started preparing for the news today and then Okay, so First Billy Santoro he disappeared from Twitter his Twitter account was deleted. But right before he did that he posted a way too little too late apology. Quote, I sincerely apologize for hurting the POC with my statement. I have fallen in love with many POC and understand the frustration. A friend of mine was killed during the rioting in Philly and I lashed out full of emotional stress. Those who know me know I am not racist. I am hurt by the loss of my friend. So it’s the it’s the I just get racist when I’m upset, I guess is

Kyle Getz 5:35
I think that’s the gay version of like, Well, I have a black friend. It’s like, well, I dated a black guy.

Mike Johnson 5:39
Yeah, yeah, I’ve taken my share of black dicks. I can say whatever I want to

Kyle Getz 5:44
Exactly.

Mike Johnson 5:45
Then it gets even crazier because his husband, Gage Santoro, who also has disappeared from social media since but he shared pictures of Billy Santoro in a hospital examination room. alleging that he had attempted suicide over the backlash of his racist comments. But lots of followers pointed out that like, it might not even be in a hospital room like it doesn’t they’re in consistencies in the image that people are pointing out that suggests that that is not the story. He- if that is a hospital, he’s almost certainly not there for suicide.

Kyle Getz 6:23
How would you know just based on the picture?

Mike Johnson 6:25
Well, part of it is so he’s laying down in a bed in an exam room just sort of covered with a blanket and his husband’s just sitting there like looking all Gague-y. And somebody pointed out that if you make a suicide attempt in Australia, you are admitted you don’t lie down in an examination room. And so there’s just stuff doesn’t quite add up there

Kyle Getz 6:50
Is they a doctor putting on a rubber glove beside him going. “Do you know the one thing that could help if I relieve that pressure in your anus?”

Mike Johnson 7:02
Yeah. Moving on. Are you ready?

Kyle Getz 7:06
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 7:06
Okay. Next we got to talk about Lindsey Graham.

Kyle Getz 7:12
Did I hear you say lady g for legal reasons?

Mike Johnson 7:15
Lady G. That’s right. That’s right. So the republican senator from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham is, I mean, he’s real gay. He’s dodged gay rumors

Kyle Getz 7:28
allegedly,

Mike Johnson 7:29
whatever. Don’t be like this.

Kyle Getz 7:31
No you- we have to. We’re so big-

Mike Johnson 7:33
Just let me have this Kyle

Kyle Getz 7:33
no we’re so big and popular. We could get sued or sued. I don’t know.

Mike Johnson 7:40
Well, okay. He has dodged gay rumors for years. That’s just a fact. Anyway, a, a porn star Sean Harding @SeanHardingxxx tweeted, quote, there is a homophobic republican senator who is no better than Trump who keeps passing legislation that is damaging to the LGBT and minority communities. Every sex worker I know has been hired by this man, wondering if enough of us spoke out if that could get him out of office. I cannot do this alone. If you’d be willing to stand with me against LG, please let me know. And LG apparently is short for lady G, which is apparently short for Lindsey Graham.

Kyle Getz 8:21
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 8:22
Okay. What do you think about that? Let’s talk about that. First,

Kyle Getz 8:26
I think the biggest part that I’m seeing people being I don’t know, I’m seeing a lot of things but I just this is not me saying a brand new thing. It’s kind of vocalizing what I’ve seen elsewhere that I agree with is that outing someone is a big No, no, that is not- like it’s real fucked up to do it. Don’t do it. Unless there is a very extreme circumstance like this one is where that person is so hypocritical. They’re passing legislation that directly hurts this community while participating actively or passively. We don’t know his position in like gay shit. So this is one of the rare like it is I think it is okay to out them. And the other thing that that again, it’s not me being original but it is not about hiring sex workers. It is not about sex workers themselves. It is not about being gay. It is purely about the hypocrisy and the destruction done to the LGBT community.

Mike Johnson 9:26
Yep. I concur. Yeah, absolutely. And sex workers man, like, what a what a, like,

Kyle Getz 9:36
you show up in the door, and Lindsey Graham opens it and you’re like, oh, god damn it. All right.

Mike Johnson 9:41
What a misunderstood and maligned occupation that doesn’t deserve it. Yeah. So I think we should try to figure out how to go to the Republican National Convention. And

Kyle Getz 9:53
get on Grindr?

Mike Johnson 9:55
and get on Grindr and and see if we can land us a big fish. If You know what I mean?

Kyle Getz 10:03
I mean, that’d be so interesting. Do I have to actually give them the blowjob to get like confirmation? You know, like people are like, Oh no, I was never gonna actually sell you weed. I was just gonna show up with money and, and, and ask you about a fat join not actually take it you know like you have to actually like get to the point where you do it

Mike Johnson 10:22
you should see the dick and then decide.

Kyle Getz 10:24
That’s true. That’s a good that’s a good lesson for all of us really see the dick and then decide. Yeah.

Mike Johnson 10:32
Okay.

Kyle Getz 10:33
Okay,

Mike Johnson 10:34
moving on. Moving on. Moving on. Okay, so we God I’m just so fucking

Kyle Getz 10:47
oh no

Mike Johnson 10:47
spo JK Simmons wife JK Rowling.

Kyle Getz 10:50
Oh, fuck that lady

Mike Johnson 10:52
is in trouble again this week. On June the sixth that was just a couple of days ago, she shared an article titled creating a more equal post COVID-19 world for people who menstruate. Her response included, quote people who menstruate. I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. woban? wimpund? woo mud? And

Kyle Getz 11:18
what’s- it’s clear she knows that the word is wombat.

Mike Johnson 11:22
Right. Exactly. Exactly. And I don’t know. And that’s clearly there’s nothing like controversial about that. I don’t know why people jumped in her shit about it.

Kyle Getz 11:30
I know right? That was fun. Yeah, good work.

Mike Johnson 11:35
Great. Good work.

Mike Johnson 11:39
I mean, of course, she has is a known- I don’t I don’t even want to say the word TERF anymore. I was talking to somebody on Facebook about this and TERF I think is really easy to throw around now because it’s cute. TERF sounds cute. Right? It sounds like I think it sounds cute or like a like a laundry detergent. Maybe or like it. It she’s she a TERF doesn’t- I mean fucking cunt is what we should be saying. But anyway, people jumped in her shit because people with vaginas, menstruate and not everybody with a vagina is a female.

Kyle Getz 12:18
Also, you’re gonna- I mean also, not every, like, even if you are a woman with a vagina after a certain age you stop that or if you are a child, if you’re a girl you don’t- like, you don’t necessarily do it or people that I don’t know or, or born with reproductive issues or whatever. Like, it’s not even true if you ignore trans or non binary people. Like it’s just incorrect on all levels.

Mike Johnson 12:44
Yep, yep, yep, yep. Half an hour later, she went on to tweet quote, If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth. And

Kyle Getz 13:05
Did she’s just I have a black friend with with trans people. did she say I’ve- I love trans people. I have a trans friend.

Mike Johnson 13:12
Oh, I like i think i think she said I know and love trans people but they’re not real.

Kyle Getz 13:18
I know that’s weird.

Mike Johnson 13:24
Yeah, I just anyway. Monroe Bergdorf @MonroeBergdorf tweeted at JK Rowling these times are hard enough without you a wealthy white woman tweeting transphobia from your mansion. Trans people really don’t need your bullshit right now. do us all a favor and give it a rest. To say that you’re a disappointment is an understatement.

Kyle Getz 13:46
Yeah. Someone else say not now. JK.

Mike Johnson 13:50
Yeah,

Kyle Getz 13:51
it’s like, just just everyone like just stop for you know, let’s just there’s a lot. There’s a lot There’s just a lot and just stop.

Mike Johnson 14:02
Yep,

Kyle Getz 14:03
that’s really what I want to tell you.

Mike Johnson 14:04
Yeah, Monroe Bergdorf, the same the same person said, quote to choose pride month to come out with yet more transphobia in a time when people are coming together to call out bigotry is an indicator of how you only care about liberation for people like you read the room JK. And then I saw I didn’t I didn’t save it, unfortunately. But there was there was a post I think it was on Facebook of somebody saying, you know, it’s really amazing that the Harry Potter universe is so wonderful and the books are so great and that there is just was no author

Kyle Getz 14:41
that no one knows who wrote them. Okay, as we’re retelling our favorite tweets because this is I enjoy this too. I forgot one of my favorite ones about the lady g thing was someone posted. If you or anyone you know is a sex worker and You know was paid by Lady G. please reach out to me I’m not a journalist or reporter I just loooove gossip. I thought that was the funniest shit.

Mike Johnson 15:11
Yeah, let me know so i can hire you and I can give you a really good tip because girl you earned that. Yeah.

Kyle Getz 15:17
Oh my god. Yeah, exactly.

Mike Johnson 15:20
That’s the news. But before we move out of the news, I had this idea that I didn’t run by so here we go.

Kyle Getz 15:25
Let’s do it.

Mike Johnson 15:26
I think every week in June for pride month I would like to highlight a queer black person from history to sort of honor Black Lives Matter and the fact that it is pride. This week,

Kyle Getz 15:37
No hate it, don’t do it.

Mike Johnson 15:42
this this week, I wanted to talk about Ruth Ellis who is a LGBT activist. And and she she has quite the story so she was born July 23 1899,

Kyle Getz 15:55
Holy shit

Mike Johnson 15:56
African American woman who became widely known as the oldest Surviving openly lesbian. At the age of 101.

Kyle Getz 16:04
Is she alive still?

Mike Johnson 16:05
No she’s dead. She died. She died in 2000 at the age of 101.

Kyle Getz 16:09
I mean, I knew lesbians were immortal, but I didn’t know they were that immortal.

Mike Johnson 16:13
Usually, they just get on a boat and ride into the sunset

Kyle Getz 16:18
Ride towards lesbian island where they all retire. And

Mike Johnson 16:23
Lesbos like Sappho, okay,

Kyle Getz 16:25
I couldn’t remember the name of that island, so I just called it lesbian island, but

Mike Johnson 16:30
I mean, that’s the that’s the translation. Yeah. You just you just, you’re just showing us your command of ancient Greek. So she came out as a lesbian in 1915.

Kyle Getz 16:50
Shit, that’s like before Columbus got here.

Mike Johnson 16:55
Yeah, yeah. According to her, she came out in 1960 With help from a psychology textbook, and but she did say that she never had to come out to her family, although they were rather accepting. So there was no like formal moment but that they just knew and it was fine. She graduated from Springfield High School in 1919. She’s from Springfield, Illinois. At a time when fewer than 7% of African Americans graduated from secondary school. And then in the 1920s, she met the only woman she ever lived with Sesaline “Babe” Franklin, and they moved together to Detroit in 1937. So it’s weird because they didn’t get married. So and I don’t see any sort of denotation for what their relationship was, but just that they, I mean, they were clearly fuckin so but but she the partner, Franklin, she died in 1973 from a heart attack on her way to work and Ruth Ellis died in her sleep in the early morning hours of October 5 2000. What I think is super interesting is that Elis and Franklin’s house was also known in the African American community as the quote unquote gay spot, is a central location for gay and lesbian parties served as a refuge for African American gay and lesbians. She would continue to support those who needed books, food or assistance with college tuition. throughout her life, Ellis was an advocate of the rights of gays and lesbians and of African Americans. Soon after her 70th birthday due to her fame within the community. Ellis would become a staple at the Michigan women’s Music Festival. On her 100th birthday she led and was sung Happy Birthday by the San Francisco dyke march of 1999.

Kyle Getz 18:44
Aww.

Mike Johnson 18:46
Although Elis and Franklin eventually separated they were together for more than 30 years. Okay, I just want to go back to the like, you came out in 1915.

Kyle Getz 18:53
That’s in sane

Mike Johnson 18:55
pre roaring 20s. Right. Like

Kyle Getz 18:57
Yeah,

Mike Johnson 18:58
I- fucking pioneer. Amazing.

Kyle Getz 19:01
Yeah, they like didn’t have a word for lesbian like she probably had to, like do so much explaining like No, no. In a sexual way, like, for good, good sex stuff. And they’re like you mean as roommates? No, no, no, no. Like, all the way deep inside.

Mike Johnson 19:16
Yeah. She’s my real good friend. But like real good

Kyle Getz 19:22
but so good.

Mike Johnson 19:25
That’s that’s that’s Ruth Ellis our our queer black person from history of the week.

Kyle Getz 19:30
Oh, thanks, Ruth.

Mike Johnson 19:32
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 19:34
Uh, do you wanna talk about fat.

Mike Johnson 19:36
No. Okay, cool. This has been Gayish. we’ve been avoiding this episode.

Kyle Getz 19:44
Yeah. Well, yeah. Cuz I asked you to, we were going to record it. And then I texted the day before and said I couldn’t. So

Mike Johnson 19:51
yep.

Kyle Getz 19:52
This is the second time we’re trying to do this and we’ll see.

Mike Johnson 19:56
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 19:58
Can I start with some gayta

Mike Johnson 20:00
Sure let’s do the gayta.

Kyle Getz 20:01
Okay. This is really interesting. I think

Mike Johnson 20:06
Gays are fat shamers and we all are gonna probably have depression because of it, or I don’t know.

Kyle Getz 20:15
Yeah, this has been the the Journal of psychology of Mike.

Mike Johnson 20:19
Yeah

Kyle Getz 20:19
published in right now

Mike Johnson 20:20
a sample size of one.

Kyle Getz 20:22
One but pretty accurate. No, this is it’s actually not about it’s more about how people feel about their bodies have men specifically feel about their bodies. This is psychology of men and masculinity by David A. Frederick and Jamal Esaley published in 2016. So they did a meta study, because a lot of studies show that gay people gay men, do have are more like judgmental, more unhappy with their bodies. But then recently there has been a study that question that That said, it might that might either that might not be true or that’s based on stereotypes of gay men. So this study wanted to figure out using a meta study. So trying to get, you know, use more data than anyone else has, what the truth is. a couple things that they set up just things that we already know based on other studies is that men both gay and straight, I don’t know sorry, bi people, you again, we mostly care about gay people. So both gay and straight men consider attractiveness to be more important in their partner than women.

Mike Johnson 21:40
Sure

Kyle Getz 21:41
And then also, women tend to be treated as sexual objects, I think that goes hand in hand tend to be treated as sexual objects so that therefore then they start to view themselves as sexual objects, which leads to what they call surveillance. So it is monitoring your appearance from the outside world. And they found the same thing with gay men. So that your because of how you are treated by society, you believe that about yourself, and then start worrying about how you are going to be viewed.

Mike Johnson 22:12
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 22:14
So let me tell you about what I found or what the data- what I found. Here’s what I found by reading one article, okay. confirmed that gay men reported lower body satisfaction than straight men. But the differences were small. So, to me we expect like, it is a giant, vast, gaping discrepancy between the two, but that’s not necessarily the case.

Mike Johnson 22:43
I love the word gaping.

Kyle Getz 22:44
I know, right. It’s so disgusting and hot. Okay. I don’t know what this means. But the D S is less than point 20. So if someone is a statistics person, they might know what that means.

Mike Johnson 22:57
standard deviation? I don’t think that standard deviation

Kyle Getz 23:00
Dick sucking? I don’t know, DS Nintendo DS. I don’t know. Um, yeah. So I mean, something that I take away from that is like people always assume it’s just gay men, but straight men also have issues with their bodies, as do bi men and queer men and all that other good stuff,

Mike Johnson 23:14
sure, yeah. Well, one thing about all of that, that sort of frustrates me, I guess, is that I don’t, it reinforces a stereotype that I have that I don’t know if it’s valid or not, but that men are visual, that men’s sexual brains are visual more than the female sexual brain. And I just that that is one possible influencer in this information.

Kyle Getz 23:43
Yeah, no, that or I think this information influences that like knowing physical attractiveness is more important that would lead to believe that men are more visual.

Mike Johnson 23:54
Yeah,

Kyle Getz 23:55
it’s interesting when gay men reported poor body image The exceptions where they they judge them based on or the ask them these questions, all these different things based on like muscle size and your BMI and all this other shit. The exceptions though, were your image of your face and your attractiveness rating so you’re asked to say like, what do you think about your face like good bad, and they asked how attractive do you think you are compared to other people? So those were the ones that were the exceptions we did not. I guess. We are not as judgmental of our own faces and overall attractiveness. Which I wonder if that’s I don’t know where we hate our bodies. So we’re down with our faces or is it because we take more care of our faces than straight dudes like,

Mike Johnson 24:39
I think I I think I’m super hot until I look in the mirror.

Kyle Getz 24:47
Do you need just a face mirror so that you can just be like this part of me so good?

Mike Johnson 24:51
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 24:53
Yeah, I actually identified with that as well. So gay men were more likely to report being okay with body modification meaning cosmetic surgery, they were far more likely to have had cosmetic surgery, which that that felt true to me like i or i could see gay men being more being more acceptable for them to get cosmetic surgery than a straight guy. So I can imagine more than doing it.

Mike Johnson 25:21
Would you ever would you ever get into surgery?

Kyle Getz 25:24
Growing up, I always said I wanted a nose job. But only if- nose jobs are so difficult compared to other shit like that can get super fucked up real quick, so I probably would never actually do it. I also though, only recently saw like a before and after this chick, getting the bags under eyes like taken out and made it look so much better. So that’s I just started thinking about that. And I think I would do that.

Mike Johnson 25:53
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 25:54
What about you?

Mike Johnson 25:57
I mean, my first knee jerk answer is no. Absolutely Not and I don’t know what that’s about.

Kyle Getz 26:02
Good for you. No, that’s great.

Mike Johnson 26:03
well, except then I was thinking what would I do if I was going to do anything? And I hate my teeth so much like just having them all yanked out and put new pretty ones in there. Like I think still counts as cosmetic surgery even though it’s dental.

Kyle Getz 26:16
Yeah, um, can’t you do like braces or what, what do you want to- you could get like whitening Shit, there’s like shit, you can do it that is not in surgical.

Mike Johnson 26:26
Well, that’s true. But nah

Kyle Getz 26:32
there is a part of me that’s like, okay, sure exercise and eat right. But what if someone just sucked all the fat out? That sounds much easier,

Mike Johnson 26:40
right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kyle Getz 26:43
Should we I should. I’ll just go ahead and let people know we both have Well, I’d say

Mike Johnson 26:48
you can say that

Kyle Getz 26:49
we both have fucked up body image things so we’re not gonna we’re not coming from a place of we are healthy and listen to us. So just gonna put that out as we talk about how easy it would be to get fat sucked out

Mike Johnson 27:00
Yeah, I mean, yeah, unless they’re new to the show, I’m sure they know how stupid we are.

Kyle Getz 27:06
If you’re new to the show, hi.

Mike Johnson 27:10
Hey,

Kyle Getz 27:10
Hey, girl. Um this is interesting sexual orientation did not result in no that’s how do I say this? I should just read it directly sexual orientation did not predict reported pressure from partners to lose weight. I would have thought there’d be more pressure in a gay couple especially if gay men are shitty to other gay men like that they would pressure their partner to lose weight because they’re you know, they get a little fat or whatever. So that was not the case. So cool. Either we’re, we’re good or we’re all equally terrible.

Mike Johnson 27:46
Yeah,

Kyle Getz 27:47
great. Um, the as far as body image and sex so this is I thought really interesting cuz I, I think about these things for myself, but having studied and have information on it so gay men were not more likely to avoid undressing during sex. So no matter how you feel about your body, if you’re gay, you’re still going to take your shirt and pants off.

Mike Johnson 28:12
Yeah, yeah. They’re saying that like in comparison to women, straight women who

Kyle Getz 28:18
to straight men.

Mike Johnson 28:20
Oh, to straight men, okay.

Kyle Getz 28:21
Yeah, yeah. All this is comparing. It’s about men and presumably cis, gay men and cis straight men.

Mike Johnson 28:26
I was just I was reading a study earlier. I didn’t I didn’t bring any of my study.

Mike Johnson 28:31
You were reading a study. That’s my thing Mike. Stop it!

Mike Johnson 28:36
I knew I knew this is what you would do.

Kyle Getz 28:39
Okay, well, I’m gonna tell you about the news.

Mike Johnson 28:41
Great, fantastic,

Kyle Getz 28:42
bad. That’s the news.

Mike Johnson 28:45
But I was really I was reading a study that said that, like the number of women who have sex with the lights off because of how they feel in their bodies is just crazy high and I sort of thought that gay men would be the same. So it’s interesting that They wouldn’t be or they they would track as bad about it as straight guys.

Kyle Getz 29:04
Have you ever left your shirt on during sex that feels like something you talk about Like, oh, I go swimming, like leaving your shirt on and make a joke about it. But have you ever lost your shirt on during sex? Like purposefully?

Mike Johnson 29:14
No.

Kyle Getz 29:16
Oh, good for you?

Mike Johnson 29:17
I don’t think so. I don’t think so.

Kyle Getz 29:20
Before. Before COVID when I was still hoooking up this like, jacked dude came over to like, do me real nice. And I like I didn’t take off my shirt. So it’s like you, you. I can’t I can. Like you’re so you have so many ripples and muscles and good things.

Mike Johnson 29:39
You’re very bumpy. And yeah, I don’t want to. I don’t want either of us to be distracted from that.

Kyle Getz 29:47
This is about all your crevices. And another thing, howmever, gay men were more likely to hide at least one body part during sex and they were more likely to avoid sex due to body dissatisfaction.

Mike Johnson 30:05
Yeah,

Kyle Getz 30:06
Do either of those.

Mike Johnson 30:09
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. This is the this is not the personal part of the show Kyle.

Kyle Getz 30:16
Oh, okay. We’re all we agree and we’re casual about it and everyone’s fine. Cool.

Mike Johnson 30:23
I find I find I find that that is probably at least half of when I say that I have a shitty online dating ability that when I say that my Grindr game sucks when I say my Scruff game sucks. I’m sure that that’s at least half of it is how I whether I feel like I deserve to have sex with people. I feel shitty about the way that I look.

Kyle Getz 30:46
Do you get is that like you get someone interested but then you don’t actually hook up because you’re worried about it?

Mike Johnson 30:54
No,

Kyle Getz 30:55
what is it

Mike Johnson 30:55
but, but I definitely don’t reach out to people that I find attractive because I think that way over my, like my league.

Kyle Getz 31:03
I do that too. And again like I’m I’m we’re both fucked up so I shouldn’t give you advice. Like there’s a certain level of like, if you’re

Mike Johnson 31:11
I’d say the blind leading the blind, but that’s probably offensive to blind people. I don’t know.

Kyle Getz 31:15
The dicks leading the dicks leading the dicks. I don’t know, like,

Mike Johnson 31:19
Blind Guy Gay let me know if that’s okay.

Kyle Getz 31:23
I if someone’s model hot like what I’m I’m not gonna I don’t know.

Mike Johnson 31:29
Yeah. Yeah,

Kyle Getz 31:30
I think there’s like yeah, that’s, that’s okay. That’s a shitty my instinct is like, be realistic but then that is very, like physical and surface level, but it’s also like Gruff and Scrindr

Mike Johnson 31:43
Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Getz 31:45
Like, I don’t know. It’s it is physical. You’re on there to look at. I don’t know. I I struggle with that. Okay, uh, last one. You can file this under the no fucking shit category. Gay men are more influenced than heterosexual men By Appearance ideals in the media.

Mike Johnson 32:03
Sure. Yeah.

Kyle Getz 32:06
I should have started with that because that’s a very lame one to end on.

Mike Johnson 32:10
No, it’s not that lame. I mean, I I think that if you if you buy into this idea that men’s sexual brains are more visual, then add a component that’s why that’s why straight guys feel bad about their bodies likely, right? But then add to that because they see a attractive or conventionally attractive men in the media and they think I want to be that or I need to be that because they can see it, then add the gay layer and it’s not just I want to be that but I also want to fuck that.

Kyle Getz 32:41
Mm hmm.

Mike Johnson 32:42
Right?

Kyle Getz 32:43
Also, um, I didn’t mention this earlier in the when they were just doing their kind of cursory review of what’s out there. There was one study that found that in advocate and out magazine, they had a higher rate of images of men with lower body fat and higher levels of masculi- muscularity. I was like they spelled masculine real wrong. No, that’s because it’s a different word. And more muscularity than publications to the general public, which, yeah, like so basically, there’s more muscley hotter guys in, in gay magazines, which also feeds into what you’re saying.

Mike Johnson 33:20
Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle Getz 33:23
Whew. So that’s what, okay, we didn’t that’s the gayata we didn’t mention like, it’s interesting. It’s Pride Month. And this this topic for me, especially surfaces during pride like people you know it

Mike Johnson 33:39
sorry not everybody talks about their Pride bod.

Kyle Getz 33:41
yes, and like straight people be like, oh my summer body but like gays are like my pride body. And so yeah, it surfaces more all the floats and shit and all the gay bars that are packed with, you know, the six packs and everything, you know gives this even more an environment that can Make you feel shitty so it’s really interesting this year that pride is not happening in person. So I don’t know it’s just a different

Mike Johnson 34:09
Yeah,

Kyle Getz 34:11
we don’t we now don’t have the our bodies as what we use to flaunt during pride.

Mike Johnson 34:17
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I heard that like, isn’t isn’t pride Fest in Seattle hasn’t been just rescheduled that they’re looking at like,

Kyle Getz 34:26
oh,

Mike Johnson 34:26
October or something I might be make. I might be making that up. But just like taxes, that means you have more time you we all filed an extension.

Kyle Getz 34:37
Filed an extension for Pride.

Mike Johnson 34:39
Yeah. For our pride bod.

Kyle Getz 34:41
Yeah, yep.

Mike Johnson 34:42
So I wanted to talk about I don’t think the segment is very long, but I wanted to talk about the history of fat, the history of fat shaming and ideal body type and you know, back before Like the Industrial Revolution, more or less, people were just full on starving to death. Like, there’s like the whole, the whole island of Ireland in the potato famine and this just dying in the fields or whatever. Anyway, that was a weird thing to say. But basically like skeletal was the norm and people didn’t even have the fucking idea of what would be ideal. They’re just trying to survive, right? But then bring the industrial revolution around and there’s a lot more access to sources of calories, there’s a lot more access to money, there’s a lot more access to media in the form of newspapers, advertising, and then it emerges this idea of fat as being the ideal body type. And the the thinking goes, if you are fat, then you are well fed, which means you have money and you’re successful. And therefore you are sexually attractive. And it was especially prevalent with women that plump women were the ideal and you see that in the art of the time that that, you know ladies with larger Tatas were, you know idealized, more full figured they were, they were the ideal and and then without dwelling on it too much there’s a whole thing that happens in the 1920s with the flapper movement and but that was sort of a, an outside thing that didn’t really catch on in all of mainstream media. But that begins the first time when the idealized female figure is most radically out of step with what actually people look like.

Kyle Getz 36:50
Oh, so flappers fault.

Mike Johnson 36:54
Well, just like the 1920s by the time the roaring 20s came around this very slim, very Form fitted flapper dress with the feather hat that becomes the image of female perfection. And it is it is. It’s cultural, i and significant and prevalent and not what people look like.

Kyle Getz 37:16
Do you think Ruth was a flapper

Mike Johnson 37:20
Ruth Ellis?

Kyle Getz 37:21
Yeah. Do you think she got into the flapper life? Like are there lesbo flappers?

Mike Johnson 37:25
I don’t know,

Kyle Getz 37:26
A les flap as I call them.

Mike Johnson 37:28
Yeah, yeah, the very well known term. les flap?

Kyle Getz 37:31
I’m gonna say she was I’m gonna say she was also like one of the most prominent and won several dance competitions because that’s what I want to believe.

Mike Johnson 37:38
Okay, I’ll send you her Wikipedia article. And you can add that

Kyle Getz 37:41
Yeah, yeah. Cool.

Mike Johnson 37:42
You don’t really need to back it up. Just put it on there.

Kyle Getz 37:44
Yeah, well, I’ll add a link to a source. That is this podcast.

Mike Johnson 37:49
Yep, exactly. Exactly. So then, I wanted to we’ve talked before we talked on the AIDS episode about you know, the the rise of of the gym body as sort of a response to that in gay culture. And that’s worth exploring also, but I just wanna I just want to jump to the punch line, which is, if it was, if fat was because you were rich, and the ideal body type was actually about money. That’s still true Now. We have people, particularly African Americans that live in food deserts, where the only option that they have available to them are fast food restaurants that are calorically dense and very low in nutrition. And it contributes enormously to obesity. And meanwhile, you have rich white people that live in cities that have money for a gym, they have money for a trainer, they have money for organic food in abundant supply, that they can, you know, tailor their nutrition all of those things take money. And so like the the hot gym bunny image that we have is actually also about money just like it was back in the day.

Kyle Getz 38:55
And it’s interesting like the who’s I was now particularly think about who’s in power. So who’s controlling the narrative? And you know, if people with money, those are the same people that probably own the media companies and so they’re going to be attracted to and put on magazines and stuff, pictures of people they’re attracted to or people that look like the people they know. So it’s this kind of this feedback loop. If you have money, you’re hot. You like hot people, you put them on your magazine, you want to be hot. So you use your money for that like,

Mike Johnson 39:26
yeah, yeah.

Kyle Getz 39:28
Do you know about Barry’s bootcamp?

Mike Johnson 39:30
Yes. I have a fraternity brother who’s smoking ass hot. And he is an instructor there in LA.

Kyle Getz 39:36
Is he gay?

Mike Johnson 39:37
No. Well, yeah, he identifies a straight

Kyle Getz 39:41
okay. I can definitely see. We call him lady G. No, so I think that less about like, specifically berries, but it was only a couple years ago or a year ago or something, someone Like, oh yeah, Barry’s came to Seattle, and everyone’s got to get their picture in front of Barry’s for Instagram. And I was like, I have no idea what you’re talking about. But like, those are some of those moments where I feel totally out of the gay culture. Like, I feel just like on this outsider, like, I didn’t know what Barry’s was that it was a gay thing or that you had to get your Instagram selfie in front of it. Like I just had absolutely no idea.

Mike Johnson 40:22
Yeah. Yeah, thank goodness.

Kyle Getz 40:25
Well, I mean, but, but those are the things I feel shitty about. Those are the things I feel like I’m not part of the gay community then because I am not aware of some of those things.

Mike Johnson 40:34
Yeah, like, Is there some secret hashtag that you need to follow so that you get the get clued in to what all the hot twinks are doing? Yeah, no

Kyle Getz 40:43
hot twinks. Where are you? What do you let us into your world. Now that’d be a violation. They’d get kicked out. Um, the the Barry’s that they just put in is actually pretty Ajax to you.

Mike Johnson 40:59
Yeah. That’s true. It’s just a few blocks away. polari Word of the Week.

Kyle Getz 41:03
Oh yeah, I’m gonna wait. I thought for a second I tricked you. ajax is a word that means a nearby a-j-a-x.

Mike Johnson 41:12
It’s just like, Is it like adjacent?

Kyle Getz 41:15
Yeah, the guess is I said yeah, I don’t know. I just was like, sure I was about to make up. Yes. It’s shortened based on I don’t know, probably. Yeah. So So right now we are not Ajax each other but but Reynolds My dog is is Ajax to me and he’s stretching and he looks so cute.

Mike Johnson 41:36
awww

Kyle Getz 41:37
Okay, you can say stuff.

Mike Johnson 41:40
ajax the Polari Word of the Week.

Kyle Getz 41:41
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Johnson 41:43
So, I’m going to start then with just a very simple sentence. That’s super hard to say,

Kyle Getz 41:50
Okay.

Mike Johnson 41:51
I am obese.

Kyle Getz 41:53
Based on who or what?

Mike Johnson 41:55
The medical definition of obesity is a body mass index or BMI of greater than 30. And my BMI right now is 30.4. I’m like right on the edge, but I am obese. morbidly obese is over 35. And I wanted to just like that, that is a heart crushing, difficult thing to say out loud. And but I need to say it out loud. I guess.

Kyle Getz 42:27
I hear you. I mean, but people also have called into question BMI as a measure of that.

Mike Johnson 42:33
Yep, exactly. Right. That’s exactly right. So, let’s talk about BMI as a measurement first. So BMI, which stands for body mass index, you find your BMI by dividing your weight in pounds by your height in inches squared and multiplying by 703. So I didn’t, I didn’t. Yeah, there’s there’s several calculators online that you can use to get your BMI if you want to test them to fuckin fuckin slit your own wrists afterwards.

Kyle Getz 43:12
You’ll lose Some blood weight.

Mike Johnson 43:13
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that will give you a number and anything under 18.5 you’re underweight 18.5 to 24.9 you are normal or healthy weight 25.0 to 29.9 you are overweight 30 and above you are obese 35 and above you are morbidly obese and I just I have such a hard time in this space Kyle because like first First of all, BMI is horseshit for fit people is horseshit for muscular people when I weighed 200 pounds and was about 11% body fat. My BMI was still well into the overweight range, despite the fact that I was crazy jacked. So they’re like, it does not work for Super fit people. And so then, but when you look at like medical studies and if you look at like super high level data for a society, it does work for enough of the population that you can start to draw distinctions about those people’s behavior and health and so it’s it’s one of those things that like you shouldn’t use it for yourself. Maybe but in aggregate, it is useful. And I’m getting lost now. I just got really upset and I’m like,

Kyle Getz 44:58
upset about what?

Mike Johnson 45:01
uh when I typed in the calculator today, all my information and it came back with a little bit over 30 and the calculator said you are obese. I immediately had this whole thought about like, well BMI doesn’t actually mean anything because if you’re jacked, it’s totally wrong and remember that time when you were jacked and it told you that you were overweight but you were clearly not overweight look at the pictures and then I think well, maybe maybe I muscular under this layer of fluffy and that’s why that is that the calculator is wrong that I’m actually you know, that I’m not as bad as this fucking calculator says that I am fuck you calculator. And then and then and then I come back and I think well, you know, I haven’t been working out and I feel bad about where I’m at. And like, I guess we’re the personal section. Now Kyle,

Kyle Getz 45:48
here we are

Mike Johnson 45:49
here we go.

Kyle Getz 45:50
Well, I think what it’s doing then right or wrong is that number’s validating what you already think it’s like you know, when you go out and seek sources that prove your point right Regardless of what they are like, this is one of those things. I don’t know if it’s totally right, but it might be. And also it’s giving me the information I already believe.

Mike Johnson 46:07
Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle Getz 46:13
What’s the instead of talking body mass index, let’s talk about body Mike index. How do you feel about your body?

Mike Johnson 46:22
I mean, terrible.

Kyle Getz 46:23
Yeah. Okay.

Mike Johnson 46:24
Well, I feel terrible. Well, I mean, so the even okay. I, yeah. So I talked about jacked Mike pretty regularly and people are probably tired of it now.

Kyle Getz 46:37
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 46:38
Tired of him now.

Kyle Getz 46:39
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 46:39
And, yeah. And, but like, I can’t express strongly enough how I hated my body. And I would look in the mirror and I saw a fat person. And the fact that I was so fucking delusional In that is terrifying, because I tend to think of myself as a relatively objective person, emotionally stable for the most part. And that but I like, I just I thought I was fat unattractively fat. And, and, and I was I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong about that. And, and and I wish that I could say that I learned my lesson like I’m a lot happier now. But I don’t like what I see in the mirror. And there’s a part of me that says, Well, if I thought I was fat, then I’m definitely fat now. And

Kyle Getz 47:36
wait, wait. Okay, that’s not that- the takeaway should be you incorrectly assessed your own body. So there’s a chance you’re currently incorrectly assessing your own body.

Mike Johnson 47:49
Sure, sure. I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know how to make that true

Kyle Getz 47:55
feel true

Mike Johnson 47:55
I don’t know how to. I don’t know how to feel that definitely.

Kyle Getz 47:58
Oh, yeah. I agree. I agree.

Mike Johnson 48:01
And then like I, there’s there’s a, there’s a big old part of me that hasn’t even let it even a little bit process that like, Trevor left me because I got fat. And I’m single again and wondering if I’ll ever be good enough for anyone ever again. And if I just fucked it up and missed my chance and I’m gonna die alone, like it gets real dark real fast. And

Kyle Getz 48:35
when you say Trevor left you because you’re fat. What do you Why do you say that? Or why do you think that?

Mike Johnson 48:39
Because I did everything. I thought I thought I did everything that I could and there I still need a reason. Like, if I, if I if I know the reason that I have control over it somehow or like make it make sense and It’s one of the things that I it’s funny he never said so never. And when I would say things about myself, he would fight me on it. It’s very sweet. I never believed it.

Kyle Getz 49:15
Yeah, yeah. That’s a weird thing about like people trying to help or say stuff. It’s like yeah, it’s if if you have negative opinions about your body weight, other people saying something doesn’t change that.

Mike Johnson 49:28
Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle Getz 49:33
That sucks. That’s a shitty thing to like, have to also deal on top of having to deal with your divorce and, you know, wanting to date again to like add that additional pressure to yourself or blame to yourself. When that is something you’re clearly creating or deciding not based on evidence.

Mike Johnson 49:52
Yeah. Yeah, well, and before I before I did this, you are obese calculator. I had this I had this thought that like, I looked at myself in the mirror this morning. And I thought, not that I like what I see. But that I see people that look like me all the time and I think they’re fine. Like it- And so why don’t I feel fine about me?

Kyle Getz 50:23
Do you have ideas yet?

Mike Johnson 50:26
I don’t know.

Kyle Getz 50:27
Okay. That’s good questions to know if you had guesses or theories or anything.

Mike Johnson 50:32
Cause shits fucked up and I’m fucked up to Yay.

Kyle Getz 50:35
Oh, okay. Well we got there. You don’t need therapy. Mike. You need to talk it through with me.

Mike Johnson 50:41
Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know how to feel better. And I’ve been doing keto. I think I’ve been losing some weight. I haven’t been tracking it. And maybe maybe this time, I’ll get somewhere and be happy. But I also think, like looking back at jacked Mike, who was clearly deeply unhappy that maybe I’m just gonna be unhappy forever, like, just learn how to live with being unhappy instead of trying to fix it.

Kyle Getz 51:11
Oh, whoa, whoa, okay. I mean, I get why you took that leap. But it’s interesting when you were like, oh, like I don’t know how to feel better about it, you immediately jump to Okay, well work out and lose weight instead of I’ve always had this feeling and this insecurity no matter how I look so like, I thought you’re gonna go towards like mental health things or are working on your beliefs or whatever.

Mike Johnson 51:39
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 51:40
Have you talked to your therapist or done anything mental health wise about your body image and feeling of okayness with yourself.

Mike Johnson 51:49
We have talked about it from time to time usually in the context of my latest divorce.

Kyle Getz 51:59
I mean, that’s To me seems like based on what you’re saying, Yeah, like, if you’re trying to lose weight to feel better, that’s you’ve been there, and it didn’t do it. So that’s not the solution.

Mike Johnson 52:12
Yeah, but I gotta get my pride bod so that I can get my next husband.

Kyle Getz 52:15
Cool. You have, oh, we filed an extension for that. So you have a little bit more time. Oh, cool. Okay, cool.

Mike Johnson 52:24
Great.

Kyle Getz 52:25
Um, yeah, I with my therapist, I don’t I don’t have one right now. But back when my most recent therapist I, we, we were doing this thing to like cognitive behavioral therapy, where I would bring in this belief or this thing that happened and analyze where my thoughts go. And basically, like, where along the way did you fuck up your thinking and how can we fix that? And one I brought in was that I am fat. And we walked through the exercise. And by the end of it, it’s supposed to like, Oh, I felt really bad. And now I feel a little bit better. I think that belief I had is now less True or I, you know, understand him or whatever. And after going through that exercise, I believed it even more than I did before. And, and then she was like, Oh, this is not like a thought that we need to work on reframing. This is a core belief you have. That is not going to be we need more than this worksheet to fix that. So yeah, I do have like, the core belief that I don’t look good that I’m fat that I need to I need to work on.

Mike Johnson 53:28
How How do you work on that? How do we work on that?

Kyle Getz 53:33
I mean, to me, it goes to Oh, I don’t know

Mike Johnson 53:38
heroin.

Kyle Getz 53:39
I shouldn’t but

Mike Johnson 53:40
we need we need to we need to start drugs, right. or

Kyle Getz 53:44
cocaine?

Mike Johnson 53:44
we need to? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. uppers. We need uppers.

Kyle Getz 53:49
Yeah, okay. Done. That’s the gay solution to this problem. I think. I mean, I don’t I don’t know but I have to believe it involves working On feelings of kinda like self validation and feelings of self confidence and worthwhile ness like that’s, that’s part of my entire shit. So I think work that I have been doing in the past would help with this. But I yeah, I’m sure there’s specific stuff you do for your weight and body that I don’t know. Hey, we have a friend who works on eating disorders and works as a counselor. We should talk to her about this.

Mike Johnson 54:27
Yeah, maybe. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, she, she works on like, eating disorders as near as I can tell. I’m very good at eating.

Kyle Getz 54:36
Yeah. Okay. Just because you eat food does not mean you don’t have an eating disorder. There are lots of eating disorders that include eating.

Mike Johnson 54:43
I might. Yeah, maybe.

Kyle Getz 54:50
Do you think you have an eating disorder?

Mike Johnson 54:51
No. I think that I have had severe body dysmorphia.

Kyle Getz 54:56
Okay,

Mike Johnson 54:56
and I don’t think I have that now. I just think that my awful feelings about myself are true.

Kyle Getz 55:03
Okay. Did you just give us the definition of body dysmorphia?

Mike Johnson 55:13
Great.

Kyle Getz 55:14
I don’t have a problem. I’m just ugly like

Mike Johnson 55:22
Jesus Christ, Kyle. I, yeah, let’s, I don’t know. I don’t know what to say. Okay. So, in a little bit, we’re gonna talk about Todd Masterson, the gay fat friend, and we’ll give him a proper introduction in just a second. And the whole thing of like, Here I am, here’s my body. Here I am in a speedo, and I’m a large person. Part of me thinks, you know, I wish I could be that, right? Like, I wish I could give zero fucks and just be like, as nude as I wanted to be at any given point in time. And there’s part of me that doesn’t, there’s part of me that doesn’t want To be okay with this where I’m at that doesn’t or clearly already is not okay with where I’m at much less heavier. And that I don’t I don’t want to be comfortable. I don’t and I don’t know how to be.

Kyle Getz 56:16
Wait, tell me more about that you started- Why? Why don’t you want to feel better about where you’re at?

Mike Johnson 56:24
Because where I’m at is bad. because because where I’m at is unhealthy. Conventionally unattractive. well, okay those those two things and I don’t want to be proud of this. I don’t want to be happy where I’m at and confident in my body because I hate it. Like that seems like the opposite of progress to a big chunk of me and

Kyle Getz 56:57
haha big chunk

Mike Johnson 57:01
Good job. I’m trying I’m trying to talk about me and not talk about other people but you can’t not by like extension. Right?

Kyle Getz 57:10
You mean like it because you’re comparing yourself to other people Right?

Mike Johnson 57:13
ultimately it comes down to that I think yeah.

Kyle Getz 57:17
I mean, to me it’s like what is going to help you? Yeah, it’s interesting you say you’re happier but still feel bad about like that about your body because like, overall you think like life goal be happier. So if you’re happier you that would translate into some form of feeling better about your body, but it’s, yeah, yeah, it’s it’s Wow, I didn’t think about this to me. It’s

Mike Johnson 57:40
so jacked. Mike was exhausted and hated himself all the time. Yeah, now I’ve just given up and that,

Kyle Getz 57:48
oh boy,

Mike Johnson 57:49
that feels better. That feels better than being hypercritical, tired, exhausted, mean to myself. At at such a constant And high volume. This is better I am happier. Now not fastidiously, worrying and wasting all of my food and like keeping huge journals and going to the gym every single day, and running 20 miles a week. And like, I am way happier in so many areas. My feelings about my own body not haven’t quite improved as much.

Kyle Getz 58:29
Yeah, to me, I, as you were talking only, like, kind of made a connection between self harm like I, when I do that, it makes me feel better. And it’s not the right way to do it, but it does. So like what you’re saying is I’m going to use this shitty feeling and treating myself badly as the motivator to get more what I consider attractive or lose weight or whatever. That’s- Sure, it may help you lose weight, but it’s gonna it’s not going to help solve the root issues of feeling shitty.

Mike Johnson 59:05
You’re, yeah,

Kyle Getz 59:07
I think about this. Not it’s the point is not to say I am currently healthy, and I do not need to do anything to change. to me And obviously this is all way easier to say than do. I would like to be happy with myself, and also still work on improving myself where I want to. So I want to be comfortable in my skin and happy and content. But that doesn’t mean I want to be complacent. I want there are lots of things I want to keep doing better. I want to keep reading more books, so I’m more knowledgeable, I want to keep writing. There are things I want to do more, but that doesn’t mean I’m like, I’m still a relatively intelligent person. I still write some like finding a balance between being happy and being comfortable with yourself is different than being complacent

Mike Johnson 59:54
I’ll buy that

Kyle Getz 59:55
Cool, cool, cool.

Mike Johnson 59:57
You fixed me

Kyle Getz 59:57
Yeah, you’re welcome. It’ll be $100

Mike Johnson 1:00:01
Yeah. Oh, you’re cheap.

Kyle Getz 1:00:03
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Especially after Corona. Girl price is going down. Oh, no. Supply supplies gonna go. so high up I’ll have to reduce my prices anyway that we’re not talking about my sluttiness

Mike Johnson 1:00:20
aren’t we though,

Kyle Getz 1:00:21
aren’t we though?

Mike Johnson 1:00:27
Do you have more to talk about You said you had personal stuff to talk about and then I just fucking like firehosed you so

Kyle Getz 1:00:33
yeah, should I talk about my personal stuff?

Mike Johnson 1:00:36
Yeah, that’s a yes. Yeah.

Kyle Getz 1:00:38
Okay. Um, I I have definitely had body image issues like, part of me wants to connect it to the gay community, but it’s really not. I remember being a kid like, I must have been in like elementary school or junior high and I remember telling my dad or my mom that I thought I was fat like an age, that is too young to, like, be fat or not like an age that like that. It’s just it was so young in retrospect that it is something that was very beginning that that I had issues with.

Mike Johnson 1:01:14
Yeah.

Kyle Getz 1:01:16
And I do I do the same thing where I don’t ever like my body I have never, and I’ll go on these things where like, you know, after college, I’ll gain some weight and be like, Oh, I wish I would have you know, I wish I would have appreciated it. When I had the body that I did in college. I didn’t like my body in college, and then I’ll gain more weight and be like, Oh, why didn’t I appreciate the body I had when I first got out of college. Like, it doesn’t matter when I am I especially like, I’ve definitely gained weight as I’ve gotten older. And every time I’m like, I wish I appreciated where I was. And yeah, and hate where I am now. And it was maybe a year ago that I was the biggest that I’d ever been And I’ve lost weight since then. But yeah, like, you know, this is a time in my life where I’m bigger than I’ve ever been before. And I hate it.

Mike Johnson 1:02:09
Mm hmm. You also, you’ve talked about this, I think I agree with your self assessment that you hide it well, that your body type and shape is, like you notice well before other people do and it’s because the like, the your, your your structure is such that

Kyle Getz 1:02:31
I took a like a something where they like actually scan your body like an actual legit thing. And they’re like, oh, cool, like your body, your when you get fat or your fat is evenly distributed throughout your body. So yeah, that’s a helpful thing. So when I gained weight, it doesn’t just show up in one place, which is also really frustrating then I think there are people that are good intentioned with it, and they they tell me that I’m not fat or I’ve can’t tell but I’ve gained weight and it’s also like, well, it’s my body type. You can’t see it, but it’s true. You know, it’s, it’s, I don’t know. In fact, if anyone saying a nice thing about my body, I don’t know, it doesn’t feel good, I don’t like it. And I’d like in addition to my like my body and how it’s made, I thought this is what you meant. Like, I didn’t realize this was a sign of body image issues until later. I physically put stuff in front of my stomach. Like when I’m sitting down, I will always grab a pillow and put it in front of me or a blanket. And even when I’m home alone, I will I always wear a T shirt. And yeah, when I sit down, I will put a pillow in front of my stomach, and I never really, I mean, I knew kind of why I did it. But like that is one of those things that indicates you have issues with your body. Because I never especially when you’re sitting down it kind of like your gut, pokes out even more and I always want to have something in front of me so no one can see it.

Mike Johnson 1:03:52
Yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:03:53
I was in my first like big relationship with Jay Z where I I told him that he was not allowed to touch my stomach. Um, and he was like, but I want to so I, and then it’s like, so that was the first time I got used to like letting someone actually touch my stomach and it took a while it was not right away, but eventually, you know, I got there and liked it, but that was that was huge that was really uncomfortable. And it was also the first time that someone said to me, I like your body type. And I think the first time that I started to realize maybe there are people that like the way I look as it is not, you know, oh, cuz he also has a good personality or whatever, you know it like actually would pick my body type. And I still don’t doesn’t matter. I don’t I don’t like it. But that was the first time someone said that to me directly. So that was really interesting.

Mike Johnson 1:04:55
Could you let that in. Could you believe that?

Kyle Getz 1:05:01
I don’t think he had- I think he was telling the truth. I don’t know what his incentive would be in lying to me except maybe he’s just feeling making me feel better now I think he was telling the truth doesn’t mean I like my body.

Mike Johnson 1:05:17
Yeah, sure.

Kyle Getz 1:05:19
Also, I know that like when you fall in love with someone like regardless like a lot of their things you grow to love you know, like it’s it’s not necessarily because you actually like it. It’s because like, well, this is my person. I love you flaws and all so part of me just thinks it’s, he loved me and that was part of me.

Mike Johnson 1:05:34
Yeah. Yeah. I think so for my sensibilities. I feel really, really bad for you like it like it’s, it’s, it’s tragic. to, to have to be so in your head about it that you don’t like to be touched. Like that. That seems like like next level. To me to be like even in an intimate setting with a person that you are in a relationship with, to not want to be touched by them. That’s such a important visceral thing that humans do that like it like that. That seems real deep and real I don’t know fucked up I guess I don’t know how to say it

Kyle Getz 1:06:24
you’re trying to think of the right way to say it and you chose fucked up.

Mike Johnson 1:06:26
Yeah, exactly.

Kyle Getz 1:06:29
No, you’re right i mean i Yeah, it was really hard to get over I mean, even now like I don’t it’s not that I don’t like people touching my stomach but I like it’s one of those almost like aversion things if you start to do it some then you get a little bit more used to it. But yeah, it’s still I still really dislike the way I look. I’m particularly specifically my stomach like that’s a part of my, I mean, there’s a lot about me that I don’t like but specifically my weight is definitely a big thing. I This was big for me only this year did I even tell anyone how much I weighed. I’d never said that I told Agasthya that because we’re both working on weight but like that’s I just don’t that’s almost like the no dick pics kind of thing. Oh, this is the reason I don’t send like nude pics like- pics. I’m a cool teen. Like I don’t I don’t want anyone to see my body and that would probably ruin my chances of hooking up with someone if I sent a shirtless picture so I don’t I’ve sent the only like naked picture I have is in the mirror like the back like you can see the back and my butt because like that’s what I want that’s what I’m trying to lure people in with. So I will not in addition to not ever sending a dick pic I never send a like shirtless picture.

Mike Johnson 1:07:48
Yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:07:49
I it was only recently like realizing that I also was like really fucked up in my food. And I didn’t One of the times, only, like a year ago when I was in my last relationship, I would. This is stuff I did alone. But when you start to live with someone, then you start to notice some of your weird habits or things like so we bought food. We’re hanging out eating. And he went outside to smoke. And so I opened up the family size bag of m&ms and ate all of them while he was gone, because, and I didn’t. I mean, I kind of did do that on purpose. Like, like, knew I didn’t want him to see that I wanted to wait for him to leave. But I don’t know. I didn’t totally, I didn’t totally connect that thing as like a food kind of disorder, whatever, like, and then he came back and he was like, I wanted some of those. And in my mind, I was like these were never for you. These were so I could eat this bag for myself like and I couldn’t have you here for that to happen. So I had to wait for you to leave so I could do that. And that’s something that I cannot keep certain foods in my place because I know I will just eat all of them like if I have kind of you know like breakfast bars like those kind of granola kind of bars

Mike Johnson 1:09:10
sure

Kyle Getz 1:09:10
can’t have those because those are good enough I might eat the entire box of them at once I have to buy like the shredded cheese that I buy I once bought the Tillamuck? is that the Seattle one

Mike Johnson 1:09:22
Tillamuck’s from Oregon but

Kyle Getz 1:09:23
oh yeah, okay um, I bought that so like nice shredded cheese and it was good enough that I ate the entire bag of it so I had to start like go back to buying the like store brand because it’s not good enough that I would just eat it by itself. You know, I every now and then I’ll buy a thing of cookie dough and eat all that like I just have really messed up food habits. And that’s something I have been trying to like work on calorie intake. I don’t know how healthfully I’m doing that right now but I’ve been losing weight recently which is great. I weigh myself three or four times a day. And especially like, I’ll drink a bunch of water and then be like okay, how did that affect me? So I know like trying to figure out like what the real like number is and how things influence it and you know in the morning or at night cuz like in the morning is gonna be like you’re you’re more like you have less food in us so you’ll weigh a little bit less than and yeah I think about weight and how I look all the time.

Mike Johnson 1:10:31
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:10:33
that’s I hate summer because then you only have T shirts like when you get to put on like coats and stuff that covers shit up and I like that better.

Mike Johnson 1:10:42
So the scale that that’s that’s that’s not good like shit doesn’t change that fast. Like I like what you’re doing is not rational.

Kyle Getz 1:10:57
Well it changes like one to two pounds.

Mike Johnson 1:11:01
Okay, great. I mean, that’s a lot. Kyle, that’s a lot.

Kyle Getz 1:11:09
Yeah,

Mike Johnson 1:11:09
that’s that’s a lot.

Kyle Getz 1:11:11
Yeah.

Mike Johnson 1:11:15
I got the advice once from a book that I didn’t pay attention to, I guess anyway, like, there was this this part about like, choose your one day a week at the same time of that day, and weigh yourself one time.

Kyle Getz 1:11:33
I mean, there’s a long time that I didn’t have a scale and that’s actually I think one of the reasons that I gained a ton of weight is because I just didn’t want to know I did the opposite thing of just, I’m not going to look at it. I’m going to try to look at myself and Okay, feel a little bit heavier, but maybe I’m not. And so it was like, you know, recently kind of when I was at my biggest that I got a scale and it’s only been like, the past several months that I’ve been doing the like weighing myself all the time. I feel like it reminds me unlike going the other direction so now I if I keep looking at that number over and over it’s a reminder not not to eat as much like it’s a reminder of what I’m trying to get to and where I’m at

Mike Johnson 1:12:19
hmm sounds like we’re both a wreck that’s great

Kyle Getz 1:12:22
cool. In other words, nothing has changed

Mike Johnson 1:12:26
yeah yeah. Yeah, I don’t know.

Kyle Getz 1:12:30
I will say I don’t know about you. But when I say like shitty things about myself I tend to get like then messages from people trying to reassure me about stuff or help me feel better, which is very coming from a very kind place. I hope I do not want that. So I’m not saying this so that people validate me or say anything and so I don’t know people are gonna do what they’re gonna do, but that is not what I want or I’m looking for.

Mike Johnson 1:12:54
Send me dick pics.

Kyle Getz 1:12:55
That’s how you can help Mike

Mike Johnson 1:13:00
I Did not expect to get here. And so now I’m trying to recalibrate how we ended up here and what to do next. And I think that is to talk about Todd. A person who is clearly much healthier than I am at least mentally.

Kyle Getz 1:13:17
low bar but Sure,

Mike Johnson 1:13:18
yeah, yeah, for sure.

Kyle Getz 1:13:20
Yeah. I, uh,

Mike Johnson 1:13:22
you find him on Twitter,

Kyle Getz 1:13:23
on Instagram,

Mike Johnson 1:13:25
oh Instagram

Kyle Getz 1:13:26
@gayfatfriend, we probably say it in the interview. We talked to him a little bit ago. So we have the kind of pre recorded interview that we did with him. But yeah, he is the most amazing Instagram where he. well you’ll hear photoshopps himself into hot jacked Instagays photos and writes the funniest like captions about them like we’re all hanging out on the beach. Yay. Um, I think the first one of his that I saw it might have been Adam Ripon, in other hottie McBuffStuff. Yes, Gus Kentworthy. Cuss Gentworthy. Yes.

Mike Johnson 1:14:03
Kus Gentworthy.

Kyle Getz 1:14:04
Be like when photoshopped him into the like in the middle of their pool thing. So, yeah. Do you wanna play the interview?

Mike Johnson 1:14:12
Yeah, let’s play the interview.

Kyle Getz 1:14:14
He guys I’m Todd Masteron. he doesn’t sound like that.

Mike Johnson 1:14:18
Okay, hi, Todd Masterson, also known as gay fat friend, welcome to the show.

Todd Masterson 1:14:22
Hi. Thanks for having me.

Mike Johnson 1:14:24
So, we’ve been stalking you for a while now.

Kyle Getz 1:14:28
Like, I think since your Instagram got started.

Todd Masterson 1:14:31
Yeah. So like, I started in October.

Mike Johnson 1:14:34
Okay, it feels like you’ve been around longer than that in my heart.

Todd Masterson 1:14:38
Oh, thank you.

Kyle Getz 1:14:41
So for those who don’t know about your Instagram @gayfatfriend, can you tell us what it is?

Todd Masterson 1:14:47
Sure. Um, so what I do is I take thirst trap pictures that I find on Instagram of just like shirtless, ripped gay guys just having the time of their life around the world. And then I photoshop my shirtless body into those pictures like I was there to just you know show them what a good fun time we can all have no matter what your body looks like

Kyle Getz 1:15:11
you’re it’s not just the posts like that’s already on its own fucking hilarious but then the comments on it that you make as if you’re like we’re just eating pizza and hang it like those are so funny to me and I love so I love this so much what made you start this Instagram account?

Todd Masterson 1:15:31
Well so I live in West Hollywood which is like the one of the epicenters of these people. And I know a lot of them and I’ve seen a lot of them around forever. And I see like what kind of following they have. And after a while you kind of learn the algorithm of their posts and like what they what they talk about and how they talk and what they say and the hashtags they use and stuff like that. So I kind of saw this happening. And I realized that they never have a fat friend. They’ve never like there’s never a fat person around ever. And I noticed that years ago, you know, maybe like five years ago, there’s never a fat person in the picture. And when I see them at bars, and when I see them at parties and see them at restaurants, there’s never a fat person with them ever. It’s not that they it’s not that they don’t post pictures of their fat friends. They just don’t have fat friends. And I’m like, how is that possible? You know, how is everyone chiseled and perfect?

Mike Johnson 1:16:28
What kinds of feedback have you been getting? Is it largely positive? Do you have haters is a good mixture of it all.

Todd Masterson 1:16:34
So the only people that have ever hated it are the original guys I used from West Hollywood. I kind of started with this. He’s a therapist in West Hollywood. And he wants to be a YouTube star. And he’s kind of like well known around town. I’ve had friends that like went to him as a therapist, and they had like horror stories. And anyway, this guy, this guy is such a character. So he was like the quintessential Instagram thirst King, you know, so I was just like, I’m gonna use his pictures because they’re all so posed and silly. So he and his friends did not like get and don’t like me like they’ve never liked me they they think I’m a bully which is weird because all I’ve ever wanted to do is be their friend and like even in the post I never make fun of people and never mean I don’t call anyone stupid or anything like that.

Kyle Getz 1:17:25
Wait when you say they don’t like you What specifically have they done specific things to you?

Todd Masterson 1:17:31
They haven’t done anything to me. I mean, they have messaged me and they’re they’ve been like rude and asked me to remove their images and stuff like that. But we have a lot of friends in common. And having like doing this I’ve made a lot of friends. Like I’m actually friends with the guys in the pictures now like they want to be my friend and everyone loves it and they really excited about it. So I’ve actually made a lot of friends doing this. And a lot of them are friends with him and his friends and they have have told me they’re like, there’s like a text chain that a bunch of people are on that talk about me. Like whenever I post someone that they know, or something like that picture will go around and be like, Oh, so and so, you know, gay fat friends attacking you today. And I was like, they think I’m attacking them and I’m a bully, which is just so crazy. I think it’s because like, I’m not kidding. They’ve never been challenged in their lives really, especially as adults, like they’re just, you know, they’re beautiful and they’re rich, and they’re white, like, their lives are just so easy and perfect. And they’ve never been challenged. So like, when they get any kind of challenge. They think of it as like, an attack. Or like, they’re being bullied.

Kyle Getz 1:18:36
This reminds me of Christians.

Todd Masterson 1:18:38
Yeah, exactly.

Kyle Getz 1:18:43
When you like the pictures you post are yourself Like without a shirt on sometimes eating food, like you’re like putting yourself out there. as someone who’s like uncomfortable with their body That like the idea of doing that feels very very uncomfortable. And I can’t imagine doing that especially

Todd Masterson 1:19:03
Oh, yeah. I was practically never nude before this, like, I wouldn’t even like take my shirt off at the beach like I was I’ve been embarrassed by my body my whole life, but I’m going to be 40 in August and like, I don’t know, something just kind of changed. Like, I’ve been with my husband for eight years. We’re really great. We have a great relationship. I love my friends. I like my life. And I’m like, wait, why am I so embarrassed by my body? And at the end of the day, like, it’s, it’s an okay body. Like, I’m not. It’s not bad. I used to beat myself up about it all the time. But it is what it is, you know? So it’s like, and it’s funny, I can use it. I can use my body as a tool for jokes, or like, why am I not doing this? It’s like a goldmine. So, so yeah, I used to, like, hate my body and I still have bad days. You know, like, I’ll catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror and I’m like, uh,

Mike Johnson 1:19:51
so I want to I want to ask you the the instagay phenomenon that you are targeting, for lack of a better word, with with your with your commentary here, do you think Do you think that for society that that the whole thing is good or bad and evil or just it sort of is what it is and it’s neutral value?

Todd Masterson 1:20:12
I mean, I don’t think it’s like evil. I don’t think these guys for the most part are bad people. I don’t think they’re dumb. I don’t think they’re doing it to hurt people. I think they are doing it to brag, I think like they’re like, look at my body look where I am. Because I know a lot of them are in huge amounts of debt. A lot of them are hungry all the time. A lot of them have you know, they live in bad apartments and stuff like it’s it’s a definitely a show. So they’re just trying to make themselves feel better, but I don’t think they’re hurting. Like I don’t think they’re specifically trying to hurt people by what they’re doing. I think they’re just trying to brag. And but I think that we’re all catching on to that. I think we know that now. You know, I feel like I definitely think people See, like an unattainable body image from these guys, that’s hard. That’s hard to deal with. But I think, especially now that we’re in a pandemic, and we’re realizing that like, life is short, and the internet is not what it used to be, and stuff like that, I think a lot of people are realizing like, Oh, I don’t really need to live that lifestyle, especially that gay lifestyle of like, traveling and working out and being rich and stuff. You know,

Kyle Getz 1:21:28
I think it’s interesting that you mentioned now those people want to be friends with you. And on the surface that’s like, Oh, that’s cool. Now they know you they know you’re funny. They’re friends, but part of it also seems like your commodity then is followers or humor or something. Like if they weren’t friends with you before and they’re friends with you now. I don’t know. It just doesn’t feel

Todd Masterson 1:21:51
well. There’s definitely a lot of them that consider me like clout. So like, they want to be like they send me their pictures on time they want me to use their pictures, they want me. They want to be on my page. They want people to like, talk about them and share it and stuff like that, like there’s

Kyle Getz 1:22:08
well yeah because that promotes them

Todd Masterson 1:22:09
Yeah, there’s definitely those kind of guys and definitely, like, those people out there that I can tell are kind of using me and I and I’m friendly with those guys and I chat with them and stuff. But I know that they’re not like friends, but I’ve made like actual good friends with some of these guys, because I realized they’re like, I like they’re all introverts and they’re all shy and stuff. They’re like, I may take my shirt off, and post it on Instagram all the time. And I may be really hot and go to the gym or whatever. But I’m actually really shy and I don’t know how to talk to people. And so that’s what they say, you know, like, they’re really shy. They, they were like, if I saw you at a bar, I would be intimidated because you’re tall. I’m six, seven, like because you’re tall. You know, you have a big personality. You’re funny, like I would never talk to you in a bar because I’m intimidated by you not because you’re fat. You know? They’re like I’m shy. That’s why I don’t talk to you. So a lot of these guys are normanl sweet people just like us. You know, they just happen to show off this weird. I don’t know, body crazed lifestyle on Instagram because I think they think they have to do that. they think like, Oh, I’m a hot gay guy, I have to do this.

Kyle Getz 1:23:15
the therapist, dude. Well, what’s his name? Or do you want to say his name or not?

Todd Masterson 1:23:21
Oh, yeah, his name is Matt Dempsey. I don’t mind saying it

Kyle Getz 1:23:24
Okay, we messaged A while ago on Instagram about that, and you sent me his video. And I’m you clearly you know him better. So all I know about him is that that one video that I saw and the post of you with him. It’s interesting because I actually kind of liked what he was saying. No, I didn’t kind of I liked what he was saying that. He’s saying that he does have privilege for being attractive and he’s aware of it. So I feel like there’s something really good in what he’s saying. And of course, he gets called a douche because anyone does if they say I’m attractive, but I mean I kind of liked the message that he was putting out there. And you had a very different read on it. So talk to me about that,

Todd Masterson 1:24:06
well, his delivery is what I have a problem with. Like, I think acknowledging when you have a privilege of any kind over other people is I think it’s great to acknowledge it, but it’s how you deliver that acknowledgement. And his was just like, yeah, I’m really pretty. And you know, but like, sometimes my life is hard, because I’m so pretty. And it’s just like, that’s just a really weird thing to say, you know,

Kyle Getz 1:24:30
like, I thought he said the opposite. I thought he said, You know, people say that, oh, like, no one takes me seriously or think I’m stupid because I’m hot. And he’s like, no one actually, like, he’s kind of saying that I he doesn’t get that kind of backlash that people expect. Like

Todd Masterson 1:24:48
Yeah, I’m just saying that like how, I guess, like drinking his own kool aid of like, How pretty he is, you know, like he just kept saying like, you know how pretty he is. And acknowledging that and not. I felt like I wanted to apologize for it, but it’s just like, okay, just like stop talking about it. Like, this is weird that you keep saying how pretty you are, you know? Like, that’s, that was my problem. It’s just a weird delivery.

Kyle Getz 1:25:12
Yeah. Yeah.

Todd Masterson 1:25:13
I don’t know. It’s almost like when people say like, Oh, it’s just a preference. I feel like you are totally allowed to have preferences you are attracted to what you’re attracted to, you know, but like, you don’t have to say that out loud. You don’t ever have to type it in a profile. You don’t have to say like, oh, sorry, I only like white guys. You’re totally allowed to- your body your brain whatever is attracted to only white guy. It’s cool. You only want to date white guys. You don’t ever have to say it out loud. Why would you ever say that? Why would you tell people that you don’t need to do that. That doesn’t serve anything for the world or the community.

Mike Johnson 1:25:48
Yeah, like like you like you get hit on by so many non white guys. It’s a burden. So you’ve got it like, stop the people of color from flooding your inbox

Unknown Speaker 1:25:55
before anyone talks to you you have to say in like a profile. Please don’t Talk to me if you’re not white, so I kind of feel like the pretty thing is the same thing is that it’s like, we all have eyes, we can see that you’re beautiful. You don’t ever have to talk about it, you know? Yeah. Like Yeah. And, and honestly, it’s almost like the Jon Hamm character in 30 rock did you guys watch 30 rock., he was like, so beautiful and didn’t realize that everything in his life was easy, because he was beautiful. It’s like, Okay, cool. Maybe somebody like made fun of you or called You stupid on the internet. But in real life, when you’re walking down the street, you get so many things handed to you, just because you’re beautiful. Like, you’re gonna be fine. You don’t have to talk. You don’t have to talk about it, you know. And that’s the thing I’ve noticed during this pandemic. I think, a reason why a lot of conventionally beautiful men are kind of melting down right now and like wanting the gyms to reopen and wanting to hike and needing to go to circuit parties and all this stuff is because we all only have the internet right now. We don’t have real life. to like get those kind of validations. So they’re not getting a free drink at a bar. They’re not, you know, getting a coupon at the store because the checkout girl thought they were hot like they’re not getting these things that they normally get these validations that they don’t even realize they’re getting but they’re like, I’m not getting free stuff at the mall anymore. I’m not getting people are buying me drinks at bars anymore. So all they have is the Internet and on the internet, everyone’s calling everyone out all the time. And they’re so they’re not getting that kind of like, you know, that delicious validation that they’re used to be hot in real life, because now they’re just a picture on the internet.

Kyle Getz 1:26:10
Yeah.

Todd Masterson 1:26:12
And so that’s, I think, why they’re all freaking out and wanting to get back because they’re not getting that like daily validation they get for just being hot in society.

Kyle Getz 1:27:42
I didn’t think about that. It makes sense though. yeah,

Mike Johnson 1:27:45
so what’s the what’s the number one thing you want people to take away from your work that you’re doing?

Todd Masterson 1:27:49
The number one thing is that I just, I think we’re all equal, like we need to just stop breaking off into little cliques and and By like, body type or by, like, you know, femme and masc and all that stuff. Like just, I grew up in a gay bar in Missouri, that was lesbians and drag queens, and trans people and bi people and, and gay men, and you know, like, everyone in the Midwest the gay bars just mix there there aren’t, especially in small towns, there’s not like a lesbian bar here and a trans bar here and, uh, you know, so like, everybody mixed and I just want the gay community to be mixed again, like, I just want it to be LGBTQ+, together again, not like, it is kind of now especially in West Hollywood. It’s like, Oh, this is the bar for hot gym guys. This is the bar for bears. This is the bar for daddies. This is the bar for twinks you know? I want everybody to be like, oh, we’re all one big gay family and let’s just have fun and be friends. Stop tearing each other apart.

Mike Johnson 1:28:51
Alright, well, Todd Masterson. If people want to look up more about you find out what you’re up to get in touch with you. Where should they go? What should they do?

Todd Masterson 1:28:58
Please find me on Instagram. I’m @gayfatfriend. You know, I always check my DMs I always reply to comments. So, yeah, you can definitely get ahold of me there. And then you know, I also have my regular Twitter and Instagram, which is just @ToddMasterson.

Kyle Getz 1:29:17
And then you are one of the top 30 over 30 pounds or

Todd Masterson 1:29:26
so this is the third year they’ve done it logo tv- logo TV. I cannot say this. My husband is giggling right now. I cannot say logo TV. I keep saying tovey logo tovee logo TV.

Mike Johnson 1:29:40
That’s their French affiliate, I think.

Todd Masterson 1:29:41
Yeah, logo tovee,

Mike Johnson 1:29:42
lo go tovee

Todd Masterson 1:29:43
logo TV. This is the third year they’re doing it’s called logo 30. And every day, in the month of June, they’re honoring a different like, quote unquote, gay icon. So um, yeah, I’m I’m being honored as one of their their pride month 30 this year, so that’ll be announced probably soon. So, this podcast will probably come out like while it’s happening, so, yeah, there’s, they’re, each day they devote the whole day to that person. So I’ll be like on the channel and then I’ll be on all their social medias and stuff like that so

Kyle Getz 1:30:18
awesome. That’s super cool. Yeah. Um, well, thanks for being on and thank you for your Instagram. It is a delight. When it shows up, I really appreciate it.

Todd Masterson 1:30:27
Thank you so much. And thank you guys for having me. This was super fun.

Kyle Getz 1:30:30
Yeah, definitely.

Mike Johnson 1:30:30
Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for being here.

Kyle Getz 1:30:33
Okay, we’re pretending like we’re just finished the interview.

Mike Johnson 1:30:36
Well, yeah, I guess. I guess we don’t have to actually pause for 20 minutes.

Kyle Getz 1:30:40
No. Yeah.

Mike Johnson 1:30:46
Fuck

Kyle Getz 1:30:48
yeah, I think we’re done.

Mike Johnson 1:30:50
All right. So should we take a break?

Kyle Getz 1:30:53
Let’s take a break.

Mike Johnson 1:30:54
Let’s take a break.

Kyle Getz 1:30:54
Break.

Mike Johnson 1:30:55
[break music, sung] This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break.

Mike Johnson 1:31:01
Are we back?

Kyle Getz 1:31:02
We’re back.

Mike Johnson 1:31:03
We’re back.

Kyle Getz 1:31:04
We’re gonna do our gayest and straightest.

Mike Johnson 1:31:06
We’re gonna do our gayest and straightest but first Our website is gayishpodcast.com.

Kyle Getz 1:31:11
We are on so much of the social media Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, discord, most of them we’re @gayishpodcast.

Mike Johnson 1:31:20
Our hotline you can send us text messages leave us voicemails. It’s 5855 Gayish that’s 5855429474 standard rates apply

Kyle Getz 1:31:30
our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com

Mike Johnson 1:31:35
Yep. And our physical mailing address if you want to send us keto friendly snacks is p o box 19882 p o box 19982 seattle washington 98109

Kyle Getz 1:31:44
gayest and straightest?

Mike Johnson 1:31:48
sure lets do our gayest and straightest,

Kyle Getz 1:31:49
um, we haven’t mentioned we’re gonna, we’re gonna get or we mentioned this last time but yeah, we’re getting back into like regular episode kind of lineup that doesn’t mean we’re not going to talk about About shit that’s going on Black Lives Matter, all that all that stuff but I also personally appreciate my podcasts that are still doing their podcasts like when I see that they don’t post an episode I get why but I’m like, ah, but I really wanted to like listen to this and enjoy it. So that’s our that’s our plan and that’s why um okay. My gayest iwhen I start typing to go to certain websites, websites or do certain searches. It’s nine times out of 10 whatever I’m starting with, there’s gonna be some gay porn that is like, you know, pops up first. So I was like, I want to refinance my mortgage. And so I started typing

Mike Johnson 1:32:42
what kind of porn Do you watch we’re refinancing comes up with porn,

Kyle Getz 1:32:48
girl. gimme those extra points.

Mike Johnson 1:32:53
My interest rate is so low.

Kyle Getz 1:32:55
Were at about 5% right now. No, I started typing m.o. and it was like monster cock. Like, whatever the thing that you know is matching to this anytime I type in, I started to type in gayish podcast g.a.y. Like, there’s obviously gonna be some homosexual website first. So that is my gayest. I’ve had a super gay week, like, just shit I’m wearing and I’m listening to like queer artists and I’m reading queer shit and I’m like, caring about people’s human rights. So my straightest thing is I don’t have a straightest thing straight People just get to do what they want and be okay with it. And no one judges them because they’re in charge of the world. So I’m gonna do that. And I’m gonna introduce a gayest and straightest paradox of my straightest thing is I don’t have one.

Mike Johnson 1:33:44
I I stan that All right,

Kyle Getz 1:33:46
thank you.

Mike Johnson 1:33:47
Great. Yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:33:48
I should drop my mic and walk away now, but we have to do the rest of the show so it would be a bad ass move but okay.

Mike Johnson 1:33:56
So the straightest thing about me this week is that I dropped my phone yet again. And it is just It is like it’s it’s cracked down here. it’s cracked up here. It’s cracked around here. selfie camera doesn’t work. There’s like scratches all over it just it is it is ghetto, and I just feel like it’s a straight guy thing to pack around a fucked up phone.

Kyle Getz 1:34:18
Luckily, it looks like the screen is still usable.

Mike Johnson 1:34:22
Yeah, mostly there’s one little part. There’s one little part that I there’s no screen there but I can still touch it in the upper

Kyle Getz 1:34:29
No screen there.

Mike Johnson 1:34:32
Yeah. So I’ll get around to getting a new one eventually. And then the gayest thing about me this week was was last night my roommate just through casual conversation found out that there is a send nudes channel on our Discord server. And he he goes, Wait, is that what you’re doing when you say you’re doing podcast stuff?

Kyle Getz 1:34:57
I mean, sometimes

Mike Johnson 1:35:00
I didn’t I didn’t deny it like damn right.

Kyle Getz 1:35:04
Hey, that’s part of our jobs

Mike Johnson 1:35:06
yes sexting listeners totally counts as podcast stuff

Kyle Getz 1:35:10
yeah one on one marketing. It’s word of mouth.

Mike Johnson 1:35:14
mouth to dick. Oh, listeners Gayest and Straightest.

Kyle Getz 1:35:20
Where’s this one coming from?

Mike Johnson 1:35:21
This one is coming from our Discord server. I you might have to cut the name because I asked him how to refer to him My gayest was definitely meeting my roommates younger gay brother for the first time and immediately talking about the latest Rupauls drag race episode. the straightest is that I’m suddenly the most masc person in my queer as fuck household and have been assigned to taking out the garbage and fixing appliances and such.

Kyle Getz 1:35:51
Okay, this is so true if you live with gays like everyone knows who the masc one is. and who The femme one is and like you Yeah. Oh my god. That’s hilarious.

Mike Johnson 1:36:02
Yep. That’s it.

Kyle Getz 1:36:05
That’s it. Happy Pride, everyone. It’s still that

Mike Johnson 1:36:10
A special thank you to Todd Masterson the gay fat friend for the interview we really appreciate having him on.

Kyle Getz 1:36:14
Yeah, go to his Instagram for sure. Check it out. It’s just so good. It’s good stuff.

Mike Johnson 1:36:19
And thanks to Ruth Ellis for inventing the the lesflap

Kyle Getz 1:36:26
for being the first lesbian ever.

Mike Johnson 1:36:31
Um, yeah, so that’s it. This has been gayish. I’m Mike Johnson.

Kyle Getz 1:36:34
I’m Kyle Getz Until next week, be Butch be fabulous be you. See you next week.

Mike Johnson 1:36:39
See you next week. Bye bye bye.

Kyle Getz 1:36:40
[singing NSync] Bye bye bye.

Unknown Speaker 1:36:40
[Outro music, no words]

Mike Johnson 1:36:56
It’s also okay to want people to be healthy and not die of coronary fart failure. Like

Kyle Getz 1:37:01
did you say fart failure?

Mike Johnson 1:37:03
maybe.

You are not exempt from white privilege just because you’re gay.

Information for “Dear White People” artist: Mwende “FreeQuency” Katwiwa is a Kenyan, Immigrant, Queer Womxn storyteller.

• www.freequencyspeaks.com
• IG: @MwendersInSuspenders
• TWITTER: @freeqthamighty
• Facebook: search FreeQuency aka FreeQ tha Mighty

Please consider donating to support the artist:

• Venmo: @mwende-Katwiwa
• Cash app: $mkatwiwa
• PayPal: PayPal.me/FreeQuency

Featured Audio:

• “Your Assignment” speech by Andre Taylor from Not This Time (www.notthistime.global)
• Making Gay History, Season 1: Episode 1: Sylvia Rivera (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/season-1-episode-1-sylvia-rivera/id1162447122?i=1000376583256)
• Making Gay History, Season 2: Episode 1: Marsha P. Johnson and Randy Wicker (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/season-2-episode-1-marsha-p-johnson-and-randy-wicker/id1162447122?i=1000382091397)
• “Dear White People” by FreeQuency, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTIihYVAmRQ
• “Sermon: Pentecost 2020” by Rev. Joseph Peters-Mathews (https://www.sthildastpatrick.org/index.php/2020/05/may-31st-the-day-of-pentecost/)
• “Imagine” by Mike Johnson (John Lennon cover)

Additional Homework Assignments:

• Marsha P. Johnson & Sylvia Rivera pushed out of gay rights movement (https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/06/12/transgender-women-heart-stonewall-riots-are-getting-statue-new-york/)
• Barbara Smith: Why I Left the Mainstream Queer Rights Movement (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/barbara-smith-black-queer-rights.html)
• Intersectionality Matters!, Stonewall 50: Whose Movement Is It Anyway? (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/5-stonewall-50-whose-movement-is-it-anyway/id1441348908?i=1000443083481)
• Harvard’s Project Implicit Test (https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/)
• 13TH (https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741)

This episode has everything: anal probes, Marvin the Martian, Britney Spears, Chuck Tingle, and we reveal which of the hosts is most likely to be an alien.

In this episode: News- 3:44 || Main Topic (Aliens)- 14:13 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:07:07

On Monday’s bonus segment, Fucking Dan shares the details of his new favorite competition and life goal, Intergalactic Power Bottom. For other fun bonus things, go to www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.