Gayish: 231 Bottoms 🥺

Who was the first to bottom? Was Oscar Wilde a bottom? Should you teach your kids to bottom? Is anal vaping a thing? We get to the bottom of all of it.

In this episode: News- 1:39 || Main Topic (Bottoms)- 12:59 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:24:37

Coming soon on the Patreon segment, Fucking Dan shares his tips for cleaning out, and Mike and Kyle… react. patreon.com/gayishpodcast

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]

When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.

MIKE JOHNSON

Hello everyone in the podcast universe, this is Gayish.

KYLE GETZ

The podcast that wants you to straighten up your room, not your kids.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. And then, really, I don’t know that I want you to straighten up your room either-

KYLE GETZ

I don’t care that much that- [laughing]

MIKE JOHNSON

-keep it as gay as possible.

KYLE GETZ

-I don’t care that much about that part, it just worked with my sentence, so. [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] I’m Mike Johnson.

KYLE GETZ

I’m Kyle Getz.

MIKE JOHNSON

And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And today-

KYLE GETZ

Today.

MIKE JOHNSON

-we’re gonna get to the bottom of this.

KYLE GETZ

We’re gonna…

[both laugh]

MIKE JOHNSON

Hey Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Hey Mike.

MIKE JOHNSON

How was Rwanda? You were taking care of all of those orphans last week. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Um, yes, I… did it.

MIKE JOHNSON

You did it?

KYLE GETZ

Yes, I achieved… it. [laughter] Um.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. You’re back, welcome back.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Glad you’re here.

KYLE GETZ

Glad I’m here. Uh, and hey Mike!

MIKE JOHNSON

Hey, hey Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Happy Pride.

MIKE JOHNSON

Happy Pride.

KYLE GETZ

It’s Pride month.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, fuck my ass, it’s Pride! I forgot!

KYLE GETZ

Mhm, mhm. Because we’re not in Pride month, but we will’ve had been in Pride month once we-

MIKE JOHNSON

We will have had been, [laughing] yes.

KYLE GETZ

Uh, yeah it’s Pride month, happy Pride everybody!

MIKE JOHNSON

Happy Pride. Speaking of bottoms…

KYLE GETZ

[laughing] What me? What about me?

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] I don’t know, it’s Pride month, like. Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, okay. Yeah, sure, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, but first-

KYLE GETZ

But first.

MIKE JOHNSON

-here’s some news.

KYLE GETZ

Here’s some news. I’m ready.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s the pause for the theme music Kyle. [laughing]

KYLE GETZ

I forgot about that!

MIKE JOHNSON

[continues laughing] It’s only been one week!

[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]

Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.

MIKE JOHNSON

News the first! So, in the state of Pennsylvania, their legislature is considering revising their obscenity laws. And, they wanted to- The, the House Democrats wanted to include in that bill removing the word homosexuality as an obscenity-

KYLE GETZ

Oh!

MIKE JOHNSON

-and every single House Republican voted against that.

KYLE GETZ

That’s crazy, that that’s still an obscenity.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Yeah, yeah. In the state of Pennsylvania apparently… apparently, can’t- Can’t, uh, yeah. It’s-

KYLE GETZ

Like, the same as yelling “fuck” around kids would be yelling “homosexual” around kids?

MIKE JOHNSON

Apparently so.

KYLE GETZ

Well maybe- I mean, maybe don’t do either, but. [laughter] It sounds weird just to do randomly, but sure.

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean, to be fair, I don’t like the word “homosexuality.” I prefer buttfucking, but, like, I- I also understand that… you know.

KYLE GETZ

I… just recently have really enjoyed the word “homosexual.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Really? [slight laughter]

KYLE GETZ

I’ve just really gotten into it, like “fellow h-“ [cut off]

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s so clinical. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

I know, it’s not f- It’s, it’s one of those things where like, because people don’t use it anymore, when you use it it stands out, and, like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh yeah…

KYLE GETZ

You know, it’s like, and if a- Like a- If an old white dude used it then it’s definitely there, like, used to like, the words “homosexual” and “dope,” and, like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-I don’t know, other shitty words. But when like a cool hip gay uses it, like, you know, it’s just fun and…

MIKE JOHNSON

Although like, we just talked about it on Have A Nice Gay about umm, how a word for queer used to be “bent,” as in “the opposite of straight.” You want us to try to bring that back?

KYLE GETZ

Mhm, mhm. I- Yeah, I like that, but I will immediately forget that I want to bring it back, so I don’t know that that’s gonna happen, but, “homosexual.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Alright. [sigh] Yeah, anyway, fuck you House Republicans of the state of Pennsylvania. I hope, I hope… I hope Brian Sims turns you to the dark side. Okay, uhh, news the next?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. So… in… God, what state is this? Virginia, okay. In the state of Virginia, in Loudoun County, a Leesburg elementary school teacher has been placed on leave, after telling his bosses, the school board, he will not refer to trans students by their chosen names or pronouns. Uh, he’s a PE teacher, Byron Tanner Cross, and he is on paid administrative leave as of Thursday.

KYLE GETZ

Do think that’s the same Tanner from Sean Cody?

MIKE JOHNSON

Probably.

KYLE GETZ

Ah, he’d be a good PE teacher.

MIKE JOHNSON

It, it- it would explain-

KYLE GETZ

Oh, he’s better than the- Oh, shit. I shouldn’t be attracted to- Well, I am attracted to him so I can’t hold that, but he’s-

MIKE JOHNSON

Just don’t be attracted to his transphobia.

KYLE GETZ

No, just as body and arms.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, uh, he is a PE teacher, right? It’s like-

KYLE GETZ

But not every- I’ve had some PE teachers that were like, “you haven’t PE’d in quite a while.” [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Great. Um, yeah, I mean, during the public comment portion of the board meeting on Tuesday, he said that he quote “will not affirm that a biological boy can be a girl and vice versa.” That line, almost verbatim, you hear so many fucking fuckface asshole dickbags use and I don’t understand. I- Like, like they think if they use the word “biological” that that somehow makes it smart. Or some- Like-

KYLE GETZ

[laughing] Yeah, or that were confused about like- “Oh, shit, they’re biological?” But you know, like, it’s, it’s, like, you’re just factually wrong. I get that you can’t understand that, but every major medical organization just disagrees. So you’re, like, you’re just factually wrong. So I don’t- You know, what more can you do?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. And it’s not just as simple as your genes. Gene expression is different. There are more than just XX and XY out there in terms of combinations. And even if you are just XX or XY, that does not mean vagina or penis, that’s about gene expression, it’s just not that fucking simple. Shut up you fuckface.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Okay, great. Um, I’m interested that it’s the state of Virginia, which I think is now in this part of the country that is no longer just totally owned by conservative Republicans, even though like, my mental map of them has that- Like, my mental map says “Virginia. Oh, that’s the South. They’re fucked there.” But, it- it turns out that like, there’s a lot of actual, like, liberal progressive things that are happening in that state. Um, it’s like the same surprise that Georgia’s blue now, you know, it, like-

KYLE GETZ

Mmm, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

But- but yeah, anyway, um… yeah. Anyway, he’s on leave, which is like-

KYLE GETZ

I mean, that’s good, it sounds like the right thing happened. Like, oh, you’re gonna be shitty to people? Like, you, okay, you can’t… do that. [small chuckle]

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep. Yep, absolutely. News the next?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, so… hey Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Hey Mike.

MIKE JOHNSON

Did you know George Michael’s dead?

KYLE GETZ

Probably. There’s like this whole category of people that I’m like, I’m sure I learned they died at some point, but it just didn’t stick, and I’m not too sure, like…

MIKE JOHNSON

I’m exactly the same way. I kind of thought, like, maybe he was dead, but it was a dream or something? Um, anyway he died five years ago.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, no, let’s all mourn him. [slight laugh]

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Exactly, exactly. But um, apparently for the last five years there has been a fight over his estate and his longtime former partner Kenny Goss has been battling with George Michael’s family and the- the estate. And uh, just this last week, ohp sorry, a couple weeks ago, uh, he is indeed going to be getting a share of that 97 million pound estate.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, but pound’s so- There’s no way to know how much real money that is.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right, yeah. How much is that in pesos? I- [mutual laughter] Um, yeah, he- he had initially asked for payments of 15,000 pounds per month after the star died. And, but unf-

KYLE GETZ

I mean if we’re all making requests, [under his breath] can I have 15,000 pounds a month?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, exactly, please. Patreon: get on it. [Kyle chuckles] But uh, nothing was left to him in his will, so there had to be this proof of, like, was- was there actually a relationship and what was the nature of it? And what of the finances of the estate is he entitled to? They were never married, he wasn’t in the will, what do you do with that? Anyway.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. All a case study for why it’s so important for marriage to be a legal option.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Anyway, George Michael’s… widower? I don’t know, I don’t know what to call him, uh is getting some of that sweet, sweet money. Wake me up before you die-die. [Kyle laughs] Okay, uh, last but not least-

KYLE GETZ

Write me up before you die-die, in your will, please?

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Um… last but not least-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

-this was sent in from a listener via you, and-

KYLE GETZ

[laughing] It- it was from Patreon, to you.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Uh, the Miss South Africa pageant is now open to trans contestants. So, uh, for the very first time, quote, “Trans women are eligible to enter the Miss South Africa pageant,” the organization said on its website, as entries for the competition opened up this last Monday, quote, “However, in order to be eligible to compete internationally, the contestant must be in possession of a valid South African ID document reflecting that their amended sex is female.”

KYLE GETZ

Ohh, mm.

MIKE JOHNSON

So, they have to be post transition, not- just- um… legally. I don’t know if it matters medically, although I kind of-

KYLE GETZ

Well, this is, like, part of the frustrating thing of like to change your IDs, what proof to each- You know, in the US each state is different, some would never do it, and each- so each country is going to be different about what they require to prove to do it. And, yeah, some it’s like, it’s still kind of antiquated of like, verification of medical procedure like…

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And I don’t know how easy or hard that is in South Africa, although they tend to be fairly progressive when it comes to issues of gender and sexuality, right? Like, they’re the ones that told churches “No, fuck you. You can’t.” Like there’s- The freedom of religion does not extend to being a bigot in South Africa. They’ve had legalized gay marriage for a very long time. Like, so, maybe it’s- maybe it’s easy.

KYLE GETZ

Oh… yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

I dunno.

KYLE GETZ

I [slight chuckle] saw something recently on Twitter where someone was like, in order to change your ID on- and I don’t remember any of the details but like, in order to change your ID you had to have a proof of surgery. And she was like, “and I had gotten, like, a surgery on my foot for bunions,” or whatever the fu- “I had gotten some surgery, so I was a trans person that had sur- that had a surgery and I used that to get a change in ID” [laughing]

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm. Great, great.

KYLE GETZ

[laughing] And that’s so funny.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah, yeah. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

I have had surgery.

MIKE JOHNSON

I had a gender confirmation bunion removed [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

I- [laughing] “My kidney was the only male part of me left, and, you know.” [Mike laughs]

MIKE JOHNSON

Also, did you see that Elliot Page is jacked?

KYLE GETZ

Oh my god, yes! [Mike laughs] I didn’t know how into Elliot Page I was until I saw that photo was like… damn, abs… [Mike laughs] I had no idea.

MIKE JOHNSON

Welcome- welcome to the pool, Elliot. [mutual laughter] That’s the news!

KYLE GETZ

Speaking of wel- welcoming people to the pool; welcome these people to the pool of patron members that support us and we appreciate you.

MIKE JOHNSON

Velkommen.

KYLE GETZ

…Cool.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm… [cackling]

KYLE GETZ

Th- I don’t know. Never a bad time to be douchey! Uh, Wyatt Baker? Uh-

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughing]

KYLE GETZ

What?

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughing] Cus’- “Why-at-Baker?” Because I was at the butcher yesterday? Never mind, it’s f- [laughter] I am in a mood Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Mm, alright. S-sorry Wyatt I don’t know what happened there, I can’t explain it to you either. Uh, Jeff Bauwen Bowen Buh… buwn…

MIKE JOHNSON

From “24”?

KYLE GETZ

It’s not- Jack Bauer! [mutual laughing] That’s… close enough at least that I got it!

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

You said you’d get angry if it- your- your mom writed that.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh yeah. Big time. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

But I’m you ‘cause I successfully interpreted what you were gonna say.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughing] You really shouldn’t enable this.

KYLE GETZ

I don’t know the- uh, “Ace Schwartz”? Wait, there’s no “T” there. “Schwarz.” [Mike laughs] Did he mistype it? Did I mistype it? Did they mistype it?

MIKE JOHNSON

[pronounced in a German manner] “Schwarz” is… yeah, there’s no-

KYLE GETZ

An Ace, are you ace? Or, is that your name? So many questions!

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm.

KYLE GETZ

Don’t answer we don’t care. Um- I care about you, probably. [Mike chuckles] Um, and Stewart Gay I mean Gray.

MIKE JOHNSON

Ohh, oh.

KYLE GETZ

That’s what he wrote. So, if you want to sign up for Patreon you get bonus segments, episodes. Uh, you get to join our quarterly video call, you get ad free episodes a day early. You get a lot of cool stuff that is-

MIKE JOHNSON

If enough of you sign up, Fucking Dan gets a raise! [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Oh, that’s true! That’s- And that’s not even a joke, that’s legit in his contract. Is it a contract? Is it a thing we-

MIKE JOHNSON

It is now.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, we’re an at-will state, we can’t make a contract, but, whatever.

KYLE GETZ

Oh… sounds so offish. [official] Anyway, patreon.com/gayishpodcast.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Welcome to the tent, kids.

[pause in audio]

MIKE JOHNSON

You wanna talk about bottoms?

KYLE GETZ

[singing] This boy is a bottom… [quietly] this is where the other things come in…

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm. Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, yeah, we’re talking about bottoms.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re talking about bottoms. We did tops, we did verse-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, it’s-

MIKE JOHNSON

-finally, finally bottoms.

KYLE GETZ

As Fucking Dan- [laughing]

MIKE JOHNSON

Per ushe [usual] they’re last. [laughing]

KYLE GETZ

Top privilege is getting your episode first. I don’t know that that’s a privilege now that I think about it. [laughter] Um, uh yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re gonna talk about bottoms.

KYLE GETZ

Why do you sound… do you sound tentative? Or is that just me?

MIKE JOHNSON

I think- So, In researching bottoms, um, lots of-

KYLE GETZ

As I have been my whole life.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughing] Lots of deep introspective research into bottoms.

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] Deep insertive introspection.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah, uh, there are… there are lots of very funny but probably in poor tastes jokes that get made about bottoms-

KYLE GETZ

Ohh.

MIKE JOHNSON

-and I- I want to- I want to make those jokes while acknowledging I shouldn’t. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Oh, yeah. That’s- I think that’s squarely in line with-

MIKE JOHNSON

Gayish.

KYLE GETZ

Our- Yeah, our brand. ‘Cause a lot of people make those jokes and then don’t sit and reflect and talk about it, but we will. So we’re slightly better than Sarah Silverman.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. [quietly] Is that true?

KYLE GETZ

She- There- I- This is something that, like, I didn’t end up writing about. But like, it was- I think I’ve talked about this before. Comedians and people found out “bottom” was a thing, and then they thought that like, they just use the word “bottom” in their sentence. And they’re like, “I’m a comedian, I said ‘bottom!’ Aren’t I hilarious? I know a gay thing.” And like, to straight people, they’re like “Oh, that’s hilarious.” And gay people are like “Yeah, we’ve been saying, like- This is not funny, because you just said bottom.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, “I bet Trump bottoms for-” Like, they can just put anything with the word bottom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And there’s no depth, there’s no interesting, there’s no, like, whatever. They just learned a word and said it.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. I think, similarly like, straight comedians could just throw the word “Grindr” out there randomly, like, without context, and they’ll get a laugh.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

MIKE JOHNSON

[mockingly] “Oh, gay people fuck! Eugh.” [mutual laughter] Um, okay!

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

Sooooo, I’m gonna talk to you about the history of anal receptive sex.

KYLE GETZ

It started when I was coming to age- [laughing]

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

-and was learning my body. No one had ever bottomed until I bottomed for the first time.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, well, yeah. So, that’s not even true a little bit, but-

KYLE GETZ

Okay, no, nope, nope. You can go ahead and say real stuff.

MIKE JOHNSON

But I- I appreciate that. So, I mean obviously, like, animals fuck each other in the ass. It’s not like humans invented it or that, like, a rainbow emerged and they said “Ooh, bottoms” like, back in the day when recorded history started. It’s just-

KYLE GETZ

It didn’t- The rainbow doesn’t lead to leprechauns, it leads to a bottom with his ass in the air. [mutual laughter] That’s the pot of gold all along! The bottoms you find along the way.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, it doesn’t- It doesn’t lead you there, it tells you where- I don’t know.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, animals fuck.

MIKE JOHNSON

Animals fuck. So-

KYLE GETZ

[whispering] Do bonobos fuck in the butt?

MIKE JOHNSON

[quietly] Oh, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

[whispering] They probably have to, right?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

They fuck everywhere else- Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

Absolutely. Per ushe, [usual] it’s all- It comes down to the Greeks and Romans. And the ancient Greeks, they had lots of really interesting ideas about sex, but in particular, men having sex with other men. But it also wasn’t an identity. Like, this is- This is the problem that we run into a lot, of like, retro actively saying so-and-so from history was gay-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

-when, it- That wasn’t an identity, that wasn’t the label that you applied yourself. And neither was top, or verse, or bottom. Like, it just- It was- It wasn’t an identity to claim, it was a thing that you did. And, um, so, when we look at the ancient Greeks, they really thought that homosexual sex was innocuous or harmless, as long as everybody was fully consenting. And it also had more to do with power than anything else. So-

KYLE GETZ

[whispering] It still does.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

[whispering] For me! [chuckle]

MIKE JOHNSON.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. Um, there was definitely this sort of understanding that the person higher up on the ladder in terms of society got to put their dick in the people that were underneath of them in society. And generally that meant women, because women have been subjugated to the patriarchy for millennia, but also it meant people below you in terms of age, occasionally stature, whether you were a slave or a free citizen. Um, but yeah, if you were a citizen, male, you basically could fuck whoever you wanted to, and it was fine, as long as that person was below you in status.

Dan “Fucking Dan” Garlington

I want to encourage us to use the term “enslaved person,” not “a slave.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, okay. Ummm, yeah. They also had rules about incest, which, that’s nice to know.

KYLE GETZ

Wait, what- what kind of what kind of rules? Depends on what the rule is.

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, so, the ancient Greeks did not view gender as a determining factor of who should love, or be married to who even. The qualifications related solely to matters of age, and biological relationship. So no incest.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

But, it’s also worth talking about other ancient civilizations than just the Greeks. There’s this whole thing in African countries that are currently going through this, just, wave of mostly Catholic-driven bans against homosexuality, against uh, same sex marriage. And they like to use the- Is it nationalistic if it’s a continent? They like to say it’s un-African, that homosexuality is un-African. And that’s sort of this, just, tautology that gets thrown out there. And, uh, but it turns out that that’s absolutely ahistorical, there’s a long history of- First of all, Africa isn’t just one place. There’re thousands of different ethnic groups, all with their own identities and histories and whatnot, and a lot of them had acceptance of butt sex in their histories. Same with Native Americans, you know, we talk about the term “two-spirit,” and that isn’t a universal thing either. We say “Native Americans,” but that’s, you know, hundreds of tribes all with their own identity, all with their own histories, but there was- there was, among a lot of them, these concepts of being between gender, and sex not just being about one man and one woman, procreatively.

KYLE GETZ

But why- what’s- How is that related to bottoms?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, so, what is problematic is, as far as I can tell in most of these ancient cultures, there very much was a hard line [giggle] being drawn between the bottom, and that being about femininity. Like, so much of the language and discourse. And I don’t know how much of that is just, like, modern sensibilities writing about the past, versus actually part of those cultures, but there’s definitely this idea that if you are feminine, if you’re the one taking a dick, you’re the girl.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And that’s very much ingrained in a lot of these ideas.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And, except for- except for some exceptions that I’m gonna talk about a little bit later, that’s persisted to modern day.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And-

KYLE GETZ

I mean… [under his breath] cavemen had to do it in the butt, right?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, there’s no way that any kind of, you know, creatures, like, walking around didn’t say like, “That’s a hole.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Right.

KYLE GETZ

[makes a blowing a raspberry sound]

MIKE JOHNSON

Right. Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I would just have to assume that anal started from the early days.

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean, we have a prostate, Kyle. It’s a thing.

KYLE GETZ

We have a prostate. Feels good. Fuck it.

MIKE JOHNSON

Use it. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] Use it or lose it? That’s not how that works.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um okay, then I want to talk about some of the stereotypes, because we talk about it’s- Or, people assume it’s the feminine thing, you’re a girl if you’re the bottom. Um, there are a lot of other assumptions that come along with being a bottom, and I- It’s interesting, I started to look through articles that talked about- I just, you know, was looking for bottom stereotypes, and unfortunately, like, most of the results are like- I was like, “Oh, woke culture, you’re not listing all the shitty stereotypes, y’all talk about how we should ditch the stereotypes, that’s- I want the list.” And so like, most of the articles were, like, “Get over it.” So, um, so I had to dig a little bit deeper to find like, actual stereotypes, or they’d, like, within the conversation they write about, you know, people’s shitty assumptions, so I grabbed those. So, effeminate, absolutely one. They use the word in this opening paragraph to describe, you know, people’s assumptions. They’re like, “Someone is light in their loafers” as being the bottom. Uh, smaller- smaller, physically smaller, so, shorter, or that can mean a lot of other things. People assume that bottom is always the shorter one. And a lot of these, like, you can just draw back to, you know, effeminate or femininity, like, assuming that’s- So these are all very connected. But um, that either they’re the weaker one, that the bottom is unnatural, um, which, I can understand where that comes from, because people just assume that like, “Wait, but you have a penis, don’t you want to stick in stuff?”

MIKE JOHNSON

Right.

KYLE GETZ

There’s an assumption that they’re, um- Well, and maybe like, they’re more likely to get AIDS, like AIDS is associated with bottoms and like… receptive anal sex is more dangerous than insertive, so, you know, there’s something there but it’s, you know, you don’t want to draw too big of lines from like, all- Not all bottoms.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. #NoTallBottoms. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Hashtag- [laughter] Oh God, that’d be my worst nightmare. [Mike laughs] Uh, that they’re needy. That they’re- That feels more like a modern day one, that they’re needy, um, the uh, the emoji with the big eyes is like a very recent stereotype. Do you know which one I’m talking about? That everyone’s like “This emoji means you’re a bottom.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Because that’s the face you make when it’s being put in you?

KYLE GETZ

No, I think it’s more about the- I mean, maybe too, but like, it’s the needy face. It’s the, like, you know, you’re like “Tops can’t-” I think Joseph Peters-Mathews has made the joke on Twitter, like, “Tops can’t read.” Like, I don’t know the assumption- “Tops cannot respond to this tweet, because they can’t read.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

And “Bottoms are gonna have long responses and have, you know, big, like-“

MIKE JOHNSON

“Feelings.” [laughing]

KYLE GETZ

“-big feelings and open, you know, wet eyes, and-” Um, so other- Uh, they’re “passive.” There’s an interesting connection to some things like… Asian- Like, Asian people- And we even talked about this a little bit more in the episode about gaydar, but, Asian people are assumed to be feminine, therefore gay Asian men will be more likely to be assumed to be bottom because of that.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So- And I’m sure there are other, like, cultural or, you know, like, ethnic assumptions, but that was the one that stood out to me and I’ve, you know, can understand, and have heard of, in modern day.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, there’s a weird connection there about body hair that like, Asian men tend to have less body hair, but that’s associated with masculinity, so then they get painted as feminine because of that, and like- But, anyway, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, something I want to talk about when we talk about stereotypes is- And particularly the eye emoji one that I think is just so re- It’s in the past year or so that I’ve even seen people talk about and joke about that, is- And you even mention, like, I want to make bottom jokes, but like- Is it- It’s still based on the same ideas that we’ve had of “More feminine, women are more needy, more emotional.” Like, it’s based on the same things, it’s just a new way that we’ve expressed that, ‘cause, you know, “Hey, we found emojis, now let’s say a new way to say the old thing.” Is it- is it harmful? Is it fun? Is it funny? Like, what… what do you think?

MIKE JOHNSON

What do I think…? We’re talking about bottom-shaming, right?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, basically.

MIKE JOHNSON

At the end of the day. Um, I mean, I-

KYLE GETZ

And I think it’s easier to draw very explicit lines around there are certain things you say that are bottom-shamey, that, like, “Oh, I would never bottom.” Like, you know, like there are shitty things you can say that are very easy. Joking about something like the eye emoji- Even I’m not, like, super- Like, I don’t know. Is that- Even if it’s funny, is it inherently bad to perpetuate this? And that’s where it gets a little bit trickier for me.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, me too. And I’m not sure. Like, what is the impact of that, right? If those jokes make a person feel shame for the things that they want to do sexually… that’s not good.

KYLE GETZ

But I- Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

Go ahead.

KYLE GETZ

I also don’t think, like- It may not be a one-to-one line. Like, it’s just, you know, when- I see this on Twitter is the main place because- But like, you know, as people tweet about that, and people see it, you may not necessarily, like, directly associated it to like, “Oh now I feel bad that I’m a bottom.” But you may see that, and now everyone continues to make those connections to “They’re the ones that have the feelings, that are more emotional, that…” You know, all that stuff. And, that- So it may not- In my mind, it may not directly harm someone, although you’re right, it could, but it does put out into the universe this ongoing idea that needs to be squashed.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah. And so much of it just feels like it’s about gender, unnecessarily, that it’s about feminization. So many of the jokes that are made, really, they are… more or less explicitly about gender, but the underpinnings of it is about gender and saying that being a bottom equals being feminine equals being less than.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON.

Um, I don’t know.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. I’m not sure. It’s one of those things where, like, I would do it too or make jokes about it too. So, you know, I don’t know. I just think it’s interesting to think and reflect on, like, if it’s good or bad.

MIKE JOHNSON

There was a Vice article called “A Brief History of Bottoming” that I thought was- was really interesting, but um, they looked at Twitter for exactly this question.

KYLE GETZ

Oh!

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, “What are some of the stereotypes about bottom culture?” And they specifically said not “bottoming,” but “bottom culture.”

KYLE GETZ

Bottom culture…!

MIKE JOHNSON

“What is bottom culture?”

KYLE GETZ

Oh, I love it! [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

And some of their answers are: “Wearing oversized sweatshirts that go past your hands,” [Kyle laughing] “Listening to Lana Del Rey on vinyl while douching for a guy who doesn’t deserve you,” “Your phone always dying,” “Being confused for a woman when on the phone,” “Wanting someone to come and rescue you-”

KYLE GETZ

Oh, specifically cum.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Um, let’s see… Sometimes bottom culture is just the hyperspecific situation of the person making the joke. Here’s a quote: “Bottom culture is crying to Kim Petras because a man who has successfully rebranded themselves as a few notches more masculine than you, despite the fact they also got bullied in school for being gay, ignored the pathetic voice note you sent them eight hours earlier.”

KYLE GETZ

That’s that texting thing that like- that shows up all the time in jokes of, like, bottoms and these big long texts, and, you know, want responses right away, and like, the tops just say “K.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. [whispering] I kind of noticed that too, though. Like- [stops whispering] Um, sometimes bottom culture is jokes about spicy food, or the fact that people poop. [mutual chuckle]

KYLE GETZ

There’s- I mean, there’s some- Like, there’s a logic to, like, if you’re going to receive a penis, like, you gotta be aware of what’s inside you, so like, food is one of those- It, make sense, it’s not necessarily stereotype but part of bottom- [giggling] bottom culture.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

That phrase, I can’t stop giggling.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, [laughter] okay great.

KYLE GETZ

Just the idea that that’s a thing.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, so, I thought this was- I’m just gonna read this paragraph because I think the idea is fascinating. “This idea of ‘bottom’ as being a fully-fledged identity category is, for the most, part tongue in cheek…” [mutual laughter] “…which is why it’s so fun swapping the word ‘women’ for ‘bottom’ in famous phrases. ‘Well-behaved bottoms rarely make history.’ ‘One is not born, but rather becomes, a bottom.’ ‘If you want something said, ask a top; if you want something done, ask a bottom.’” But I think that there’s also there’s also a corollary to that, of like, if you’re telling a joke about bottoms, if you replace it with “woman,” is that the crux of the joke? Is that the scaffolding that the joke is built on?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And most of them that I’ve tried that on? Yes.

KYLE GETZ

I was gonna say, that’s got to be like 90% of them, right?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

It’s interesting because I think, like, where people are getting to is, like, these- Yes, these are, like, they’re labels that we apply, and identities, but that- It’s far too simplistic, like, you don’t need to label yourself as this exclusive thing. On the other hand, so like, I’m brushing over like an important part to, like, bottom-shaming, like, you can bottom sometimes and not all the time, or you don’t have to be- This doesn’t have to be your identity or, like, bottoming once, like, some people that are exclusive tops. Anyway, but I’m kind of on the next level where I’m like “But also, if you want your identity to be a bottom, you fuckin’ go for it!”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, it’s just like I’ve gotten to with “gay,” like, you know, don’t make it your whole identity, and sometimes like, you know what? That’s cool, if you don’t want gay to be your identity, I’m gonna make gay my identity, because that’s what I’ve decided to do. You have your identity as a, like, fuckin’ World of Warcraft player, that’s just as- That’s dumber than making- [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

Is that an identity?

KYLE GETZ

I mean, there are people- Like, “gamer” is an important identity.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s true. That’s true.

KYLE GETZ

And World of Warcraft. And like, they’re just things that people make their identity, and for some reason people take- Even gay people sometimes take pride in “gay” not being one of them.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And I’m like-

MIKE JOHNSON

“Non-scene.” [slight laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. But I don’t- You know, and I’m starting to become more aware of like, but I like the option to be able to make it my identity. Just like with bottom, I- To me, that’s kind of the next step is like, everyone pick what you want your identity, if bottom is part of it, awesome. If not, great, and we do need to deconstruct the idea that, like, that you have to fall into one of these very discrete categories.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s funny, um- [quietly] Is there more to your segment? Am I-

KYLE GETZ

Nah I don’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON

I feel like I totally, like- sort of took it over or whatever, but.

KYLE GETZ

No, no. Yeah, no. I have some- I have a couple more things. Our good buddy Rule, Dr. Rule-

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh yeah, Cocks Rule. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Co- Well, yes. This is the rule side, so, you’ll- You know, ignore the Cocks… said no bottom ever. Um, uh, he- We know his kind of view on faces, if not see the episode “Gaydar.” But um, he- So he took faces of participants, removed glasses, any kind of adornments, and took, like, similar photos of all them. So they were all kind of the similar setup, and he said that participants could pick out tops- So each of the participants described themselves as “top” or “bottom,” and people were able to pick out tops 65% of the time.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

They were able to pick out bottoms correctly 39% of the time.

MIKE JOHNSON.

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

That averaged out to be about 50%, y’know 50/50 of people getting right. But were more accurately able to pick out tops. So what he said is that participants have shown bi- “May have shown bias towards heterosexually-inspired stereotypes about men.” Um, so he is saying that these results indicate that there’s some kind of biological indicator of masculinity, uh, not behavioral. Like hairiness, square jaw, like there are certain factors. Other people- Just to give a counterpoint; other people, like, there’s absolutely no physical, distinct physical quality. So we know that Rule is very much on the side of “There are physical indicators, especially on the face.” So, I thought that was interesting.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Another study by not-Rule: In 2001, Andrew Reilly, Danielle Young, and Loriena Yancura said that gay men with a higher degree of internalized homophobia, who identify as bottoms, are more likely to get muscular so they would negate the idea of being a bottom. It’s-

MIKE JOHNSON

Ooo, okay, okay.

KYLE GETZ

Right? That makes sense to me, like, oh if I’m a bottom, but like, I have to, like, do more to make up for that if I hate myself for being a bottom, and liking it, and getting muscular is one of th- I wish I hated myself more so that I could get muscular!

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, I want to hate myself more so bad! [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Ugh, man it would be so great to hate myself- Nah I already hate myself enough. Um-

MIKE JOHNSON

Maybe you could do more. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

I don’t- Yeah, I should be more muscular! Wait, this- I just disproved this study myself. I’m not muscular. Um. Yeah, so like, there’re interesting ways that we deal with our feelings about being- About bottoming, about receiving a dick. And there’s, you know, still debate on whether there’s any biological factor involved in being a bottom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there’s biology involved, but- [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Oh, God, there’s so much biology inside me. If- [laughing] If humans ever went extinct, I’ve plenty of DNA to give to scientists to refill the population.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep, yep. I’m just saving it for later. This- [laughter] Um.

KYLE GETZ

This is mine now.

MIKE JOHNSON

So, despite talking about how, like, bottoms are effeminate, that’s not always been true throughout all of history, it’s just a theme that keeps popping up over and over again. And it’s- It’s really interesting that at least in England, at least in the UK, the feminine bottom stereotype didn’t really exist until Oscar Wilde’s celebrity pedophile case.

KYLE GETZ

They had a- What was their stereotype before that?

MIKE JOHNSON

Here’s the thing. Before Oscar Wilde was jailed, at least according to this Vice article, an effeminate man was someone who was basically “too straight.” [Kyle chuckles] So, the idea was, he’s a horned-up stud muffin who spends so much time chasing tail, he ends up adopting the mannerisms of the women that he hangs up with and lusts over. So, if you were effeminate, it’s because you’ve taken on the feminine qualities of all the chicks you bang.

Kyle

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s fucking interesting, right?

KYLE GETZ

Wow, you’re so masculine you’re feminine.

MIKE JOHNSON

[chuckles] Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

KYLE GETZ

Huh!

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, so, it’s um- That’s- Yeah. Yeah, I wasn’t quite sure what to make of it. It makes sense in a weird, like, sort of perverse way. But then, Oscar Wilde-

KYLE GETZ

Well, I’ll say, like, it’s all- Stereotypes just come from a thing, and they, you know, often were like, oh yeah I can see where it came from. But they’re made-up things, so that’s why cultures can take those things different ways, so- That’s such a good sign to know a stereotype is wrong and stupid is when a different culture had a completely opposite one. It’s like, okay, like, you know, maybe this is not as based in truth as we might be assuming.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah. Well, and um- So Oscar Wilde’s trial-

KYLE GETZ

That sucked.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. But like- Yeah, but it was in the newspapers as a big scandal, and it very much, like, raised to the public consciousness these ideas of what does it- What does it mean? And he-

KYLE GETZ

Was- was he a bottom?

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, so-

KYLE GETZ

[laughing] What does history say? No, you can keep saying your real stuff, not if he’s a bottom.

MIKE JOHNSON

No no no no. So, Oscar Wilde, his image, and the one that has persisted, is one of effeminacy, right? Like, he’s viewed as this soft, lispy, effeminate character, but most scholars believe that he was the top in-

KYLE GETZ

[laughing] Most sch- Wh- Sorry?! [Mike laughs] Did you say most scholars believe he is the top?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yes!

KYLE GETZ

There’s a debate in the historical- English historical community on whether he was a top?

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s my understanding… It’s my understanding that Oscar Wilde- People who study him end up studying his sex life, and, like, some scholars- Most scholars-

KYLE GETZ

[sigh] I want to listen to the scholarly debate about whether Oscar Wilde was a top or a bottom, because it wouldn’t- It’s- I would just- I just picture it as being non- The least sexual this debate has ever been between anyone, and they’re using like, quotes on things that I don’t understand, and scientific terminology that’s so not sexy, and I just think it’s so funny.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah. Well, and um- Wilde scholars apparently believe that he was the active partner during sex, but he went for intercrural over anal sex, so he preferred sticking his penis between the thighs of his partners as opposed to in their anus.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, see, I said! Least sexy way to describe that ever! I didn’t even know- I thought- I thought- Oh, I’m- Intercranial is what I was thinking as, like a blowjob.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, that’s a different kind of sex altogether! Put in your ear, or something. Anyway.

KYLE GETZ

I mean, the skull. Like, the eye socket hole is pretty penis shaped.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Most holes are, I guess techn- Kinda. Anyway, don’t fuck a skull. Unless you- I don’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON

Unless you want to.

KYLE GETZ

Well, unless- I don’t know. Let’s- We don’t- [laughter] The skull is the bottom, unwilling- Okay, what?

MIKE JOHNSON

An- Anyway. Yeah, this like this idea that like, there’s a measurable inflection point where Oscar Wilde’s trial changes effeminacy from “being a total straight dude who just has picked up these feminine traits from all the chicks that he’s banging” to a sign that you’s gay. And, um-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Is the study into whether Oscar Wilde is a top called “topology”?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yes. Must be. It must be.

KYLE GETZ

That’s what the- Sorry, I can’t get over that. You- I don’t know, you could keep talking, but I just- I can’t get over the- In a very happy joyful way, that that’s a thing that people study. [laughter] Okay. Yeah- But yes, that is interesting that it changed the dynamic of the culture of effemininity.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. And then I also want to talk about the impact that the HIV/AIDS crisis had on the terms “bottom” and “top”. So, they were never really identities. People didn’t say things like “I am a top,” “I am a bottom.” But there’s a huge increase in that phenomenon during the 1970s and 80s. And, particularly early on in the AIDS crisis, bottoming was considered a much riskier practice than topping. Some of that is true, and many individuals disavowed bottoming entirely in order to identify as a top, and therefore be relatively safer during the crisis. So, instead of being a, like, “Hey, we’re gonna hook up and just do whatever,” it began- It became this badge of “I only top.” “I am a top,” was a very easy leap to make from that. So, these- This binary of “There are tops, and there are bottoms,” a lot of it really solidified in a meaningful way early on in the AIDS crisis.

KYLE GETZ

Huh.

MIKE JOHNSON

And, uh, so- [sighs] Let’s see. At the same time, like we talked about in the “Hanky Code” episode, a lot of that sort of flagging became more important. There’s the biohazard symbol that a lot of HIV positive men got as a tattoo. There’s- there’s this sort of phenomenon of the crisis creating a need for labels and identities that you could then easily communicate to each other. And I wonder if the verse phenomenon- If any of that is sort of bubbling up because those things are less necessary now with the prevalence of PrEP, and the fact that HIV/AIDS is no longer the death sentence that it once was. I think there’s- there’s some interesting things going on in the culture and therefore the language I think, with regards to what we do with our dicks and butts yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, and- Yeah, with regards to topology.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I do- I do think, like, pendulum swings back and forth and absolutely goes too far, and in just so many areas of life you’ll go too far one way, and, so like, it makes sense why these, you know, labels were created in the- That’s so interesting about AIDS. I didn’t think about it, but it makes sense. Um-

MIKE JOHNSON

Go ahead.

KYLE GETZ

[quietly] No, you.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, so, uh- I- I also- I love- This article also talks about power bottoms, and how that’s like a masculinization of the traditional, usually considered femme, bottom, thing. Like, it’s, um- It’s a masc dude, and he’s the one that’s in charge, he’s just doing it with his ass, right? That’s the whole thing with a power bottom. But then juxtapose that with, I- I want to make this happen like “fetch,” [Kyle laughs] or like Fucking Dan wants “max facts” to be a thing. Um, I love this so much. There’s the emerging category, at least according to this Vice article, of “blouse.” A blouse is a feminine top. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] Oh, I love that.

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s pretty great, right?

KYLE GETZ

That’s hilarious, yeah. Um, I can see where, like, some of these labels are useful in that it helps easily communicate an idea that- Like, what do you like to do in sex? Well, let me describe- Let me count the ways. Like, being able to communicate ideas efficiently is useful-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-and what we often do. But, this is where I think the pendulum swings too far towards “But now these are identities, and what I have to do, and if you’re this you mean that,” like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Or like, all of those jokes about, like, “What do two tops do when they hook up or what do two bottoms do when they hook up? Oh, I guess you’re just fucked, or not fucked!”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. [chuckles]

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s not fun because, like, you can’t possibly be- You’re just not compatible.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, I’ve never had a top not give a blowjob because they were just that toppy that they could never put- Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Or, even- I think even the most toppiest top- Get two top-top-top-tops together and there’s still a lot you can do.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

You can still have a lot of fun together, right?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, and bottoms, you can, I don’t know, put all kinds of things in each other. Like- [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

That’s what I- Yeah, yeah. Um, and part of that is, I think, even- If you are in a scenario where one person wants to top and the other person wants to bottom, we still have that, like, “But it has to be a penis in an ass,” and one of our friends actually was talking to me about that. And, something we haven’t talked about: Bottoming stemming from if you have issues getting hard, one of the nice things about with two dudes is like, there’s two opportunities for hard penis to be involved. Um, but uh- He was like “Ah, I don’t know what to do, like-“ and my advice to him was like, “If you don’t get hard, there are a million things you can put up someone’s butt. And that’s a lot of fun.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Maybe not at the same time, but-

KYLE GETZ

Depends on the bottom!

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Depends on the bottom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Hey, speaking of “depends,” we also need to talk about whether bottoming is safe, because there’s a lot of misinformation out there about, like, that if you bottom too much, or too hard, or too long, or with the wrong things that you could become incontinent.

KYLE GETZ

Ohh!

MIKE JOHNSON

I was always terrified by that.

KYLE GETZ

You told- You have told a horrifying story… Oh, are we gonna get to that later when things are sexy?

MIKE JOHNSON

Whenever, I just- You said the word “depends,” and it made me laugh. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] Great. I’m glad that we have such a low bar for our comedy. Um, yeah, and you can- And what I’ve seen is oftentimes other things you do, if in your mind you’re like “Ah shit, I can’t top right now,” and you do those other things, sometimes those are fun and exciting, like fingers, butt plug, toys, like all that stuff, then you eat it, you know, whatever, um, then that that kind of foreplay is exciting, and then maybe you might be able to. Or not, and still, like, someone’s finger my ass feels great.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

So. Well then, can I start talking about- You talked about some of the damaging stereotypes, or sex ed, before we get to that I want to talk about the actual damage-

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh no.

KYLE GETZ

-from putting stuff up your butt.

MIKE JOHNSON

[gasp] Oh no, Kyle. Okay.

KYLE GETZ

I want to talk about the US Consumer Product Safety Commission’s National Electronic Injury Surveillance System, which is basically the emergency room visit report.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay, great. This is great. This is great. Hey, do you remember the game we played a long time ago, “What’s in Jesus’s Ass?”

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] No! What was it?

MIKE JOHNSON

I did a new story about a statue of Jesus that had a note hidden in its butt that they had found, and then you were like “We’re gonna start a new regular segment: ‘What’s in Jesus’s Butt?’”

KYLE GETZ

I think… inside is salvation.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, right.

KYLE GETZ

That’s what he calls his butt plug.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right, yeah. [laughing] Sorry, go ahead.

KYLE GETZ

So, I- They were-

MIKE JOHNSON

Things people have put up their ass.

KYLE GETZ

They release an annual emergency room summary, something, and that’s what- There’re all these articles, including someone posted to Facebook- I should have said your name, but I’m not- Um, from a few years ago, but they do an annual report, and instead of reading the article about it, I download- I actually downloaded the report.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, great.

KYLE GETZ

So, I looked, uh- You can download all this information, so I downloaded from 2020 the type, the reason they’re in there is a foreign object-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Let’s do this Family Feud-style: We surveyed 100 rectal foreign object patients, and the top 10 answers are on the board.

KYLE GETZ

I mean, you- Well, you can- Oh, and the other one is, I added a filter to say the word “foreign object,” and then added a filter for “rectum”

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

“Contains the word ‘rectum.’” I feel like that covers most of the- Yeah, what are the most common things?

MIKE JOHNSON

Damn near killed ‘um. Uhh, cucumber! Show me cucumber!

KYLE GETZ

I- Okay, so I will say, I- This camp- I dunno, I read- There were 200 lines in the Excel file that fit this criteria. So- And I read most- I mean, I skimmed, but I skimmed all 200.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

I didn’t see cucumber.

MIKE JOHNSON

I’m very disappointed.

KYLE GETZ

I’m sorry. I mean, I know that has to be a thing.

MIKE JOHNSON

Or zucchini? Or- It’s just like, fruits and vegetables is that a category, or…? [laughing]

KYLE GETZ

I searched “rectum/fruit vegetable.” No, the one- Okay. I did copy and paste some actual quotes of what they did. Uhh, the- What you’re talking about is… a 68-year-old male put a 12 inch carrot into rectum, and could not retrieve it, so he used a fork [Mike gasps] to try to get out, and injured his colon.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh. Hey kids… do what you want if it doesn’t hurt anybody, but maybe don’t-

KYLE GETZ

But that probably hurt somebody: yourself.

MIKE JOHNSON

Don’t fork your anus. [mutual laughter]

KYLE GETZ

I should also add, I’m now thinking back to, like, when I did fisting and talking about, like, the extreme cases of like, when that went wrong. Like, there’s a reason I’m talking about this, because next we will talk about the right ways, or the bad information we get, like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure.

KYLE GETZ

You need to know that you can hurt yourself, and you need to know the right way to do it to be healthy, and also it’s funny to see what people put in their butts.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

But anyway, yeah, what else- I mean, let’s go basics Mike, what do people put up their butts?

MIKE JOHNSON

Beer bottles. [laughing]

KYLE GETZ

That’s the basics? That’s the entry point for you, is beer bottles?!

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh my god. Oh my god. I- That’s like one of the very first things that I put up my butt, and like- Just because it was the only thing that I had.

KYLE GETZ

Ohh. Wow. Like a- Not a can. Like, a bottle?

MIKE JOHNSON

Like a bottle, with the neck. Just the-

KYLE GETZ

How far did you g- Just the neck?

MIKE JOHNSON

Just the neck.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

I’m not putting a- I mean, maybe some people could, or would, but, anyway.

KYLE GETZ

I mean, the PSA here is “If it’s glass, don’t put it up your butt, because if that goes wrong…”

MIKE JOHNSON

No glass in your ass, Kyle! Jesus Christ, how did you miss that?!

KYLE GETZ

Well, glass in your ass! Mother fucker, I quit. That’s horrible.

Fucking Dan

There are, uh, dildos made of glass that are appropriate, so, just make sure you’re buying something that’s appro- That’s made of a type of glass that will not shatter inside of you. A beer bottle is a terrible idea, and I- I- I question-

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh yeah, it was a terrible Idea.

Fucking Dan

That- Yeah, I mean, beyond glass, you’re also creating a suction because of the like, open end.

KYLE GETZ

Ohh.

Fucking Dan

Yeah, there’s all sorts of reasons.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

Fucking Dan

That really shocks me, wow.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah.

Fucking Dan

Maybe that’s when your prostate broke.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, maybe.

KYLE GETZ

Ohh. I think a lot of people have these stories about the first thing they put in their ass. Like, in- I was reading, someone asked, like on the AskGayMen Reddit, someone was like, “I want to put a toothbrush in my like ass.” Like- Or like, you know, one of the first guys I hooked up with, [quietly] what did he put in? He was like- Was it a broom? I don’t know, there was something that he was like “Oh, I just did this because that’s the only option.” Okay, Mike, the common thing that people get stuck in their ass?

MIKE JOHNSON

…Dildos!

KYLE GETZ

Thank you! [mutual laughter] Jesus Christ, that- You’re just on to the fun, wild-  Yes. The most common things I’ve found were like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Non-flanged dildos.

KYLE GETZ

There- I mean, I did see butt plug show up. There are vibrators, sex toys…. The most regular thing I thought- saw that surprised me, that was not a sex toy, is like, shampoo bottles, or like, bottle- Like, plastic bottles like that. Which, I didn’t know that was a- Makes sense, because you’re like, in the shower, you like, have that stuff. So, like, that was a common thing that showed up time and time again.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm, mhm.

KYLE GETZ

Um, I’m gonna read some of these other things that, uh that says-

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay. A hammer!

Kyle Johnson

Oh, I didn’t see a hammer, but, what I did see is… [quietly] Oh no, I cut that one. Oh, screwdriver.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, okay. Seems kind of pointy.

KYLE GETZ

Well, the-

MIKE JOHNSON

The handle?

KYLE GETZ

I mean, the tail end. It depends on the screwdriver.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay. All right.

KYLE GETZ

Um, “18-year-old male accidentally got a sex-”

MIKE JOHNSON

Put an 18-year-old male up your ass?!

KYLE GETZ

…Only if [Mike laughs] consenting and, but, you know. [whispers] I wouldn’t mind. Um, no, Okay! Uh, someone, cut all that. Uh, “18-year-old male accidentally got a sex-” This is- It was a butt plug, but the phrasing was, “…got a sex toy referred to as a ‘butt plug’ stuck in rectum” [laughter] Which, part of me is like… Oh no, if you had to phrase it as ‘referred to as a butt plug,’ and not just ‘butt plug,’ I’m worried about the treatment he’s getting at this place.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, there is a-

MIKE JOHNSON

Like- if that’s the first time you’ve ever heard that phrase before, is what I’m stuck on.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, like, oh boy you’re gonna be so surprised with all the other things you find up butts.

MIKE JOHNSON

Although, if it was a bad plug, wouldn’t it have a flanged end on it? And then how did it get stuck?

KYLE GETZ

Maybe the flange was small, maybe his butt was wide. Maybe he shoved it in sideways. Maybe the flange fell off.

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s like, some kind of Dr. Seuss poem that you’re making right now. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] Dirty Dr. Seuss? Um, “A 52-year-old male was celebrating his birthday with some young girls who inserted a butt plug into his rectum, now unable to retrieve it.” Um, happy birthday. [Mike laughs] A, um- This is one it was interesting. I included these because they were all, like, slightly different interesting ways. “A 15-year-old male presents with foreign body in rectum, patient was using the vibrator…” and in parentheses, “…(no assault) and it accidentally became stuck,” and that was very interesting to me that they put that there.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I didn’t see others- That wasn’t the, like- Everything didn’t define “assault” or “not assault,” so I either- It just happened to be how this doctor takes notes, totally innocuous, they do that, y’know, this one hospital does that all the time. What jumped to my mind is, someone saw a dude with a thing up his butt and immediately is like “Oh,” like, “is this assault or not?” like, jumping right to that instead of understanding, like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-pleasure being an option available.

MIKE JOHNSON

Interesting.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. “30-year-old male with foreign body in rectum states he and his friends had a practical joke going on each other. This time, he was sleeping when his friend put a dildo in his rectum, and now unable to get it out. Admitted for surgical removal.” [chuckling] What are your eyes- Verbalize what your eyes are doing.

MIKE JOHNSON

I just- I’m reminded of the last episode when boyfriend Bobby was saying that he invented an entire Ben, so that he had this, like, elaborate lie to cover up the fact that he was smoking weed. That just sounds like- like, “No, no, no, I’m not putting shit up my ass, it’s a game that I’m playing with my friends, and it got out of hand, blah blah blah.” No, girl, you just are taking stuff in the butt.

KYLE GETZ

There are so many of these that, like- If that’s true, that’s horrifying, and your friends took this practical joke to sexual assault levels. Like, that’s not cool. Or, you know, there are people like, “Oh, I squatted down in the bathroom and accidentally…” and you’re like, well, okay. “25-year-old male was drinking with his friends and believe that he may have placed a nickel and a dime in his rectum.”

MIKE JOHNSON

He believed, then?

KYLE GETZ

I mean-

MIKE JOHNSON

Like it may or may not have happened?

KYLE GETZ

Back to the sobriety episode. We just had a recovery episode. You’d get drunk enough that you don’t remember if you stuck a nickel in your butt.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh my god, new fetish: human slot machine! [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Mm, human slut machine. Uhh, “17-year-old male presents with rectal foreign body, self-placed spray bottle, will not say why he did it.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Is that germane to the conversation?

KYLE GETZ

I would assume as a doctor you want to know how it happened so there are other thing- Like, do I need to check for- Was the bottle open, and you- You know, I think, to understand the context and what to worry about and think about.

MIKE JOHNSON

Did the- Did the bottle come on to you? Like, what’s the- I don’t understand-

KYLE GETZ

What I picture in this scenario is this guy being so embarrassed about it, and not wanting to answer anything else about it. And- and that to me is part of why I want to have this discussion of like, this is when you run into trouble. And I’m concocting this whole narrative around a lot of these stories, that we have- Just have no idea, but like- Another one, uh, “A 25-year-old male with foreign body in his rectum…” uh, “…1 hour PTA”? I don’t know what that means. “He states he believes it is a vape, and is not answering any questions.” Again, I just assume that this person was playing around with his butt, stuck something up, and is embarrassed to talk about it or tell anyone about it.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. That’s got to be the explanation, because otherwise it’s like “There’s something in my butt, let’s all find out what it is together because I don’t know!”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, Yeah. Maybe- Can you anally vape?

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure.

KYLE GETZ

Are we inventing the anal vape?

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean, you can- You can ingest alcohol that way, I don’t see why you couldn’t other-

KYLE GETZ

Well, you have to blow- Anyway. Um, [chuckles] “A 38-year-old male in car pulled over by police hid a bag of THC in rectum.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

“Constipated.” [mutual laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

There was a- I didn’t write down, like, someone who like, put some kind of like drug, or- Like, wrapped it in a lottery ticket and put up his butt. It was like, oh, how did you expect that to- That’s gonna get- That’s not staying in that lottery ticket. Also, what if he won? You don’t know. Um. [Mike laughs] And I’ll just read other, like, random ones that I didn’t write the full thing, but, just- Someone put a “knife, handle first.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure.

KYLE GETZ

Glad we have that clarification. Uh, “lightbulb.” “Bar of soap.” That doesn’t seem… penis shaped. Uh, “pool ball.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, billiards?

KYLE GETZ

You know, there was no further detail- [chuckling] “Patient is not answering our questions.”

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughter] Must be a billiard ball. Like- Like pool ball.

KYLE GETZ

[sigh] Must be-

MIKE JOHNSON

Otherwise it’s a beach ball, and I’m like, how do you get that up there? Good for you.

KYLE GETZ

It’s not a- It’s not a pool ba- it’s not a ball- No one would call that “a pool ball.”

MIKE JOHNSON

I don’t know, I-

KYLE GETZ

Yes, you do! We- Mike, there are some assumptions that I just need you to not be yourself about, and be like, we can assume “pool balls” are billiard balls.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

As humans.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

We need to take some assumptions in life.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

Otherwise- No, I’m- Let’s keep talking.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay. [laughter] Putting the “ass” in “assumptions,” Kyle, that’s what I’m here for. That’s what I’m here for.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] And “magic dice”? I don’t know what that means.

MIKE JOHNSON

“Magic dice.”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. D&D- [laughter] D&D dice.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Maybe they’re wizard.

MIKE JOHNSON

Can’t prove they’re not magic, I made ‘em disappear. [mutual laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Um, there are a lot of things we put- Oh shit! No, I skipped one.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, shit, that goes up your ass! [laughing]

KYLE GETZ

Well, hopefully not- How would one-

MIKE JOHNSON

Sorry.

KYLE GETZ

Thank you for apologizing, I needed- I needed to hear that. One I intentionally put, that, I don’t know, might freak people out: “5-year-old male stuck the head of an action figure in his rectum.” Like, and I included that because like, all ages. Um-

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean, that was an Eddie Murphy sketch- Eddie Murphy joke.

KYLE GETZ

Really?

MIKE JOHNSON

I forget which- I forget which tour it was, but he talked about the- He’s in the bathtub with his brother, and pooped in the bathtub, and then his brother stuck the GI Joe up his ass? I don’t know, it’s a whole thing,

KYLE GETZ

Huh. Oh sorry, you’re right, I did get all these quotes from an Eddie Murphy sketch. [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

You never know.

KYLE GETZ

I got- I went to the wrong database. As young as- we are all curious about sticking stuff in our butt.

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure.

KYLE GETZ

And, so like, at five years old someone’s curious about putting something in your butt. So, it’s all ages. Uh, you know, I had a story about someone that was 52, with- He said with women, like, they’re- You know, just, every age, and we’re all sticking stuff in our butts, and we’re curious about it, and that to me feels like one of the things that we all pretend, or like, conservative people or Christians want to pretend that that’s not- The more we ignore that that’s just- We’re gonna stick stuff up our butts. Like, the more we ignore that, the worse it is for people who then try it and do it in a bad way, in the wrong way, and not knowing- Not having the right tools, or ideas, or resources.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep, Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

Speaking of having the right tools or resources, did you have the right tools or resources growing up to learn about bottoming? 

MIKE JOHNSON

God, no.

KYLE GETZ

I know, right?

MIKE JOHNSON

God, no.

KYLE GETZ

No, same-

MIKE JOHNSON

I still don’t, apparently. [mutual laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Do you need me to give you the sex education talk?

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh.

KYLE GETZ

When two bottoms love each other-

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, God. [sigh] Um, no, I absolutely did not. I mean, I got lots of terrible misinformation in sex ed. And the one quote, I think I’ve said it on the show before, I forget, did I?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah, but very critical. Crit- crit bit right now.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, the PE health teacher, who was probably like 25 years old and an idiot, but I was in junior high, and, you know, people’s ages are impossible to know when you’re young-

KYLE GETZ

They just seem like an expert, because there’s someone up front talking to you, so.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, uh, was talking about how- And I think it was all in the context of like, STI prevention, but in particular HIV/AIDS, which, I was getting sex ed in the late 80s and early 90s, so, like, we were all fucking terrified. Um, but said that the lining of your rectum has the consistency of wet toilet paper, which, we’ve all gotten toilet paper wet before, and then it, like, just-

KYLE GETZ

When- That toilet paper was so into me! [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

Right. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

So wet.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, that’s some WAP: Wet Ass Paper. [Kyle laughs] Uh, It- But that tear- That’s- It paints a picture that says, like, I shouldn’t even put my finger up there because I’m gonna tear a hole in the lining of my rectum.

KYLE GETZ

It puts the tear in terrifying.

MIKE JOHNSON

Exactly, exactly. And, um- But that- I mean, it was effective. I definitely, like, I definitely worried for a really long time that, like, I was gonna put my finger on my butt and bleed, or, like, worse.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And, that’s- it’s just not- It’s just not true. Now, there is research that suggests that the lining of the rectum is particularly permeable, and that that is why you are at a higher risk of transmission of STIs if you are the receptive anal partner, versus the insertive partner. Um, but you can’t take that and run with it and say, “You’ve got wet paper towels and your ass.” Like, that’s just- Anyway.

KYLE GETZ

How do you- That’s such a, like, thing that you learned at such a young age, and, even if you learn factually that’s incorrect, like, that seems like it’d be so ingrained in you, like, how did you unlearn that? Or do you- Do you think that still affects you in some way? Like-

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean, getting accidentally railed helped. So, you, like- Then you’re just like, oh-

KYLE GETZ

Wait.

MIKE JOHNSON

What?

KYLE GETZ

“Accidentally railed”?

MIKE JOHNSON

I don’t mean it- I don’t mean, like, in a consent kind of way, I just-

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

I just- I just mean in the like- Like, being with a top who, like, I was consenting, but was not gentle about shit. And then, like, you realize, “Oh, I just took a pounding and I’m fine.”

KYLE GETZ

[chuckling] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

That goes a long way to dispel the myth of, like, again, wet paper towel ass. So, um-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. “Wet paper towel ass” [mutually laughing] is the grossest descriptor I’ve ever heard, but- Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, I mean, imagine- Sex ed in Texas could not have been-

KYLE GETZ

I mean, we- Like, there are some thing- Well, I mean, I’ve talked about, just, more like, you know, you’re- “If you have sex, you’re probably gonna get an STI or get pregnant,” and, you know, “Be abstinent.” So like, we’re not even delving into the realm of anything up your butt. Like, that- It just wasn’t even, like- These were not even topics we broached, which is, I guess a part of why- I didn’t think about it, like, part of why saying that people of all ages are going to do this. Um, like, I think about sex ed, and sometimes, you know, sometimes my- There’s an immediate gut reaction of like, do you teach kids how to bottom? And that’s a weird thing to say out loud, because it sounds very sexualizing, and- and there’s an initial discomfort that I have when I say that. And then I read that a 5-year-old put a superhero toy in his butt.

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure.

KYLE GETZ

Like, and that’s- I think, just to reiterate that, like, that’s why it shouldn’t be like, “What do we want kids to do?” It’s “What are kids doing, and how do we keep them safe?”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, we know everyone’s putting stuff up their butt? Well, that’s- Then describe and help make sure they do it in a safe way and keep them safe.

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And, also, I think we need to do better in sex ed, and not just- You know, even mechanics or risks and all that stuff, like, sex should be about pleasure. Like, there’s a whole side of pleasure and consent that should be part of it.

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean, even that sentence is something that I don’t think parents would sign up for.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right? Like, there are a lot of people out there that are okay with talking about the mechanics, of like, telling Jimmy and Susie all about, like, what’s happening with their bodies, and the anatomy of it all, and to a certain extent the safety of all of those things, but don’t you dare say it’s pleasurable.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. I mean, there’s- Yeah. That’s- Isn’t that Catholics, that are like “It’s only for procreation”?

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, yeah. Yeah. Let’s use the rhythm method, because then apparently God doesn’t know you’re cheating him.

KYLE GETZ

[quietly] What’s the rhythm method? I think you’ve told me this before.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, that you look at the fertility cycle of when she’s on her period, when she’s ovulating, and, uh, there’s- It’s different for different women, but there’s a period of time in which she can’t get pregnant because her body is not in a position to be fertilized. So, uh, Catholics will track that shit and know that it’s okay to fuck during these days, because she can’t- She won’t get pregnant.

KYLE GETZ

And God doesn’t know that you’re- You’re intentionally-

MIKE JOHNSON

“Cheating the system”?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, everyone- Everyone knows you’re fucking at a time that you can’t get pregnant.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, that’s the same thing, you fucking liars.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You at you have such a stigma on condoms that you need to find your own way, when it’s like, did you know the process you’re going through is actually made easier by new advances such as condoms or vasectomies? Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, yeah. So, I- It’s knowing that sex is important, that pleasure’s an important part of sex. For a lot of people, not everyone. Like, learning about all these aspects, I think, is important to, you know, going into the world, and sex is gonna be a part of it, and yeah, we need a far better understanding than school and porn has to offer.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. One thing we didn’t talk about is whether you think everyone needs to bottom. Like, does one need to bottom in order to be an effective or good top?

KYLE GETZ

Ohhh, this is interesting, that I want to talk about. I, uh, wanted to talk about an article that I think will help illuminate, like, should you bottom?

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

Do I think you should bottom?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yes.

KYLE GETZ

And I called it- Yes. [Mike chuckles] It is one- I put- I said “The Bottoming Flowchart,” and it is just a box that says “Yes.” [Mike laughs] Um, no, this is an incredible article on theauthenticgay.com, written by Kyle Getz.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, Okay. I’ve heard of him. I know that bitch. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, he’s very popular and sexy. [laughter] Uh, so, I reread this article that I wrote for them a while ago.

MIKE JOHNSON

Renowned bottom expert. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Renowned bottomist. [laughter] Uh, um.

MIKE JOHNSON

Is that what a phlebotomist is?

KYLE GETZ

Mhm, fill bottomist. [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep, okay, great.

KYLE GETZ

I included a lot more than, like, the physicality of it, or the, like, sex part of it, so- And, I also, on Reddit see a ton of people that are like, “I don’t like bottoming, why not,” or “I want to bottom,” or “I don’t want to bottom,” and wrestling with that. So, “Do I want to bottom?” “Should I bottom?” Question you ask. I think, for a lot of people, a lot of gay people, something to try, something that they’re curious about and interested. You don’t know whether you like it or not until you do it. There are people that might just feel pressured to bottom, and that’s an important thing to check in on first. Do you want to bottom, or do you feel like you should because you’re in the gay community?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And, things to consider. There’s- if you’re asexual, then you may not actually want to bottom, may be the pressure. And it’s okay to not- To be asexual and still be in the gay community. Or a side, which is someone in the gay community that doesn’t have penetrative sex. And that’s, you know, that’s an option.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm. I read a statistic, that, in one survey, it said that 60% of respondents said in their last sexual encounter they did not do anal.

KYLE GETZ

Mhm.

MIKE JOHNSON

That, like, not doing anal is pretty common.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Please never bring statistics, because that’s my job. [chuckle] That’s offensive. [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

I get it, I get it, I get it. [slight laughter]

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, I think a lot of people don’t realize they just assume a hookup is buttfucking, and there’s- Yeah, like we said, there’s a lot of- That’s a lot of work, that’s a lot of planning, there’s a lot of stuff you can do. So if you do, like, there are things to consider. Why do you want to bottom, is it society, or because your inner bottom is calling? [Mike laughs] I heard the calling when at a young age. Um, the next one is: How do you- How do you start to explore it? And I would highly- I did not do this, so I highly encourage people to explore it, to know “Do I like it?” If you’re not sure, starting by doing it on your own, exploring on your own. And that includes fingering yourself, that includes using sex toys. I particularly like butt plugs, like you’ve said, because they have the flanged end. I tend not to use superhero [chuckle] heads to, uh, play around.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm, mhm.

KYLE GETZ

And some of the things you’ll learn- Like, I had to learn with myself that I am far tighter than most people. Have I talked about my small butthole in a while? I have a small butthole.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

That was- That could have been very useful to know, to know that I am on the extreme tight side, and need to take that into account.

MIKE JOHNSON

Bragger. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

I- I usually clarify to people: I am not trying to be sexy right now, I need you to know this information, and have before- I said, so you’ll need to take it slow to start, and there was this guy that was, like, giving this dom energy, and he was like, “No way,” and then I was like, “Okay, stop this conversation.” If you’re so dumb that- It’s hot, but it- But you need to start slow, and then be dumb.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, and I think is something that we don’t consider is there’s like a mental part of this. And the- There’s, again, things that I dealt with, or still deal with. Am I in a place where I can be assertive with someone? If I want to then, you know, I’ve explored my body and ready to- Think it’s worthwhile, and want to take the next step. Am I ready to have another- It’s not just you have a penis in the room; you have a human in the room. And am I ready to tell them to stop, if it feels bad? Am I ready to communicate It? Can I be- Can they be inside me and say, “I need to stop this right now.” Do you feel comfortable with that? And, for me, that’s a very difficult thing to do, and that takes a level of self-confidence and assertiveness, and, you know, relationship with the other person to be able to do that.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep, absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

The person should be… Interestingly, the top should be receptive of that. [chuckle] [Mike laughs] But, I could see times when they would, like, that toxic masculinity thing- They’d be like, [mockingly] “Wait, what? Why would I stop?” If you already then- I- Knowing yourself, knowing your body, then means you kind of help know what to do to, like, warm up your butt.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm, mhm.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, I- Um, I’m not talking about cleaning out, which, [chuckling] that’s going to be something in detail.

Fucking Dan

Yeah, one of the things I wished someone- I wish there’d been an education about cleaning out, uh, when I was first starting to have sex, and, uh, it was embarrassingly years, I think, before I realized that, like, that would make it more enjoyable for me and for my partners. And I had the opportunity to be on the Fruitbowl podcast recently. Hasn’t come out yet, but I was interviewed for it, and, uh, David Quantic, who runs that, asked me at the end of the interview to detail my cleaning out process, and he’s been kind enough to share that with us, and we’re gonna watch that video, and Mike and Kyle will get to see it and hear it for the first time and react.

KYLE GETZ

We’ll react. [laughter] It is a 72 step process.

Fucking Dan

Close.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

Um, so I’m not talking about that part. There’s a whole cleaning up part you need to know, and- Um, some more time, yeah. Um, so, once you know yourself, then you can know how to warm up and get yourself ready and stretched out, and for some people it’s like, cool, you can just go ahead and jump on in. For me, I need that to be a bigger process. And then I know I can decide for myself, is this a hookup and someone just wants to come over and rail me? In which case, I need to do that on my own. Or, I found so often for a lot of people, stretch- Like, if I tell them that, and I put out toys, they have a lot of fun with doing it with me.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mm, Mhm, mhm.

KYLE GETZ

Then, for people like me, starting out with cowgirl, which I don’t know a gay version of- I mean, “cowboy,” but that’s still gendered. I don’t know, a non-gender… cow… ride- ride it, riding. Riding. That, to me, is like a really good way to start out bottoming, because, like, you as the bottom are the one on top and in control then of that

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Well, and, yeah, I-

KYLE GETZ

What?

MIKE JOHNSON

Nothin’, I- My brain mouth is weird today. That’s particularly useful if he has a really really big dick, because, like, then you are in charge of how deep and how quickly that happens.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, yeah. I highly recommend that as the starting point for bigger guys.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. Um, and, yeah, you- Like, that- At this point- This is like the make-or-break time for me in a lot of ways. Like, the slowest you have to go- Like, you want, like- A lot of times I just want it to be inside me, but, like, going slow- Um, like, you can start with like, if you just get the tip in, like, then you just like ride that a little bit, and that helps, and then you can like work up to it. Or, if you can get it in, like, sometimes just sitting there with it, and then do other things like make out or whatever, are ways to, like, kind of warm up while you’re there. Also, tops may tend to thrust while you’re doing that, and if you’re good with that, great, if you’re ready for it. Or, that is also a good litmus test of if you say “No, don’t.” I mean, say that in a fun sexy way. “No, you stay there… I’m gonna be a-“

MIKE JOHNSON

No, just slap ‘em!

KYLE GETZ

Mm, I would- I mean, I would be okay with that, but. Um, helps decide if, is he open to this feedback of like, “Not yet,” or, “I’m not ready yet,” or whatever.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And then- Like, once I get past that point, that’s all the stuff I wish I knew. Because once I get to there, then, like, we can go to town. We can change up, he can throw it in, he could, you know, what have you. And then it’s, like, that’s the amazing sex that I never underst- Before, I was like, “Bottoming just hurts. I want to, but why- But why can’t I?”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And I just didn’t know about all this stuff. I didn’t know myself, and I didn’t know how to warm up and be ready for it.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Now that I do, sex is so much better.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And then, I think you can always, like- Like you said, like, we’ve talked- Like, it doesn’t have to be a label. You can try it once, and that can be fun, and “Oh, I tried it. I don’t like it. I’m gonna move on.” So, when you ask, like, “Should you do it to be a better top,” I think for most people, that probably is true. It’s like riding a roller coaster ride. Like, try it once and just see if you like it.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Although, I guess… now that I’m saying it, the downside of just trying it once is if you don’t know what you’re doing and it just kind of hurts, then you may think that that’s just what bottoming, and, I dunno.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right. Right, right, right, right. Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

What do you think? I gave you a long segment in response to your question, but, do you think everyone should bottom first?

MIKE JOHNSON

…First?

KYLE GETZ

Or, not first, sorry. Bottom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, um, I think so. I think so. Mostly, like, I’m realizing that I’m fairly hostile to the labels “top” and “bottom,” like, I think, as an identity to say “I am a top,” “I am a bottom.” Of course I would think that, because I’m verse,  but like, it just- It seems-

KYLE GETZ

You verses!

MIKE JOHNSON

It seems so limiting, and it seems so, like, toxic in a way, to say, like, “This and nothing else is what I’m about.” And I want people to feel, like, not only that it’s okay, but maybe they should question the box that they’ve put themselves in and try other stuff every once in a while. And just because you tried it once and didn’t like it doesn’t mean you wouldn’t some other time. Like, you should always- You should- If you have, like, a food that you hate from when you were a kid, you really should try it again 25 years later and see if maybe your tastes have changed.

KYLE GETZ

Huh. Unless it’s pickles, which are objectively disgusting  and no one should like them.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, that’s- How about pickles up your butt, Kyle? How do you feel about that?

KYLE GETZ

I think the- I think my butt could taste it. [Mike laughing] I think my butt could taste the disgusting juices.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Great.

KYLE GETZ

Um, okay, like, the limiting- Like, if you- Like, top with a butt plug in. Like, if you just think of yourself as a top, like, then you don’t think of, like, those other things. Or watching, like, group porns where everyone fucks everyone is so fucking hot, like, I- Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm, mhm.

KYLE GETZ

Um, you already started talking about some of your personal sexual experiences, [quietly] and obvi we’ve talked about them in plenty of other shows. You verse, so, tell me more about- Tell me more- Tell me about your butt. [chuckle]

MIKE JOHNSON

Tell you about my butt?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

I’ve gotten to a place where I am- Okay, first of all, I was like 90+% the top in my last marriage, and I guess the marriage before that too really. [laughter] But, uh, and so I identify as verse, but definitely have been wanting to explore bottoming more, and COVID being what it is, I haven’t really gotten to do that. So it’s very much on my, like- As the world opens up, I want to also. [Kyle laughs] And, um, uh. But I’m practiced enough that I basically do just fine. I don’t have a small butthole. I can pretty much just take it whenever and do just fine.

KYLE GETZ

[whispering] Wow.

MIKE JOHNSON

But it’s uh- And I’ve gotten to where, like, that’s- It’s not uncomfortable, it doesn’t hurt, it’s fun. I’m just still in search of that elusive, like, anal orgasm/what does a prostate feel like? Like, I legit don’t know where mine is, or, like, why it’s supposed to feel good. I very much enjoy, like, the intimacy, and making him happy, and I even like the feeling of being penetrated. It’s just not this, like, amazing bottom story that I hear all the time of, like, seeing unicorns and rainbows coming out of your nostrils. I just- I don’t know.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckling] It’s like sitting on the unicorn of a- The horn of a unicorn.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, yeah. And I’ve- You know, for a lot- Like, I remember one of the first times where I was like, “Oh shit, this is incredible,” because I had so many bad experiences. It was in my first relationship, where, like- there was this one time- And he was bigger, so like, you know, I couldn’t always, um… receive him. Ew, that sounds gross. I dunno. Um, but there was once where I was like, [said choirlike] “Ohhhh, I get iiiiiit.” [Mike laughs] And I don’t think you necessarily have to search for the prostate to do it. There are some tops that are, like, good at that, or they know the position, or know how to do it without, like, explicitly, like, “We will now spelunk together inside your anus for that- You know, the best stalactite out there.” [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, let’s draw a treasure map. [chuckle]

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. But I feel like you’ve- At least, I know they’re- I think after you said that, more then I realize that other people are like, “Yeah, I don’t, like, have the prostate sensation,” or “I’m not like-“ you know. So it is- Can be different for different people, but why- Is it rude to just assume you’re doing wrong? [chuckle]

MIKE JOHNSON

No. I mean, that’s- I’m hopeful that that’s the case, and that someday the stars will align with the right person, when I’m in the right mood, and that I’ll-

KYLE GETZ

The right curve of the dick, and the…

MIKE JOHNSON

-I’ll get it someday. Because the alternative is really kind of sad. Like, I want that kind of pleasure in my life that people report. And so I’m hoping that my body is capable of it.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Call me! [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

[chuckle] I- What is it like to just be able to take a dick whenever?

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s pretty great.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, that sounds nice…

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s pretty great. I’m maybe slightly overstating it. Like, there are times, like, at the moment of insertion, that it’s like, “Okay, nope, take that out. We’re gonna have to just- Like, just give me a second.”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

But it’s not like- It’s not like the saga that you have told about, you know, what it’s like getting ready or, or having to ease into things, like-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

-more often than not, it’s fine from the get-go.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Wow. That’s what every- That’s what so many guys expected, and they didn’t have the experience enough to know, uh, people’s different bodies. And that’s one of the reasons I got my fissure, because people didn’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And I didn’t know. I mean, they just kind of went to town. In this in this context, one of the biggest myths is that, sex should not be painful. Bonding should not be painful. It can be uncomfortable. You can- Yeah, when you start, you can be like, “Ooh, I’m not quite ready,” and maybe you need to, like, stretch out. Like, they’re- Like, I mean, it can be painful if you want it to be, choke me. But like, it doesn’t- There is not this thing- I remember when I was in college, didn’t know what I was doing, and there was another gay guy with me, he knew what he was doing, and we had a friend of ours ask both of us, “Is bottoming painful?” And I was very limited in my experience, and I said “Not if you do it right,” and he said “Yes.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Mm, Mhm mhm.

KYLE GETZ

And I was like, “Oh, well, I guess he’s right. I guess it’s just painful, and that’s part of it.” And I think there’s this idea that it’s just painful, and you just need to get over it. Or, it’s painful, but keep doing it with a bunch of different guys, and soon it won’t be, or something?

MIKE JOHNSON

Right.

KYLE GETZ

And that’s just not true, and you should not- It should not be that painful.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And that’s why you shouldn’t use numbing lubes, because you need to hear and feel that pain, and that is an important signal to know to stop.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. I should schedule another butt enlargement surgery, that would be so nice. I wish I could just take it whenever.

MIKE JOHNSON

Can you, like- Are you still under warranty? Or, like- [chuckle]

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] I don’t- Like, that’s usually a reaction surgery to something happening, I don’t know if you can, like, cosmetic butt sur- I think that has to be a thing. People get surgeries everywhere. I should go to LA, and there’s probably butt stretching surgeries on the corner for- Well I guess butt stretching surgery is just some dude’s dick.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, yeah! Um, there’s so much to talk about for bottoms. I’m sure plenty of people will email us all the shit we didn’t talk about for bottoms, and that’s fine. Oh, did I write down anything else? Um.

MIKE JOHNSON

We didn’t talk about Shawn Mendes even once.

KYLE GETZ

[laughter] Oh, God. You cannot get started on this. [Mike laughs] The one other thing I wrote down about, like, my personal experience is- Particularly right after the recovery episode, is because it was a painful thing, and I didn’t understand, oftentimes I would drink to have sex, and that would make it easier, or I wouldn’t remember it, and that can be one of those things that fuels issues with alcohol, and issues with sex. Like, I know that like, it has to be a complete relearning of how I have sex, because it’s sober, you know?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, learning how to do it right includes how to do it without any kind of influences, and I think that’s probably common in the gay community, and might actually be a portion of people with issues of, you know, drugs or alcohol.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, yeah!

MIKE JOHNSON

Did we do it?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, we bottomed!

MIKE JOHNSON

Wait, we bottomed.

KYLE GETZ

We bottomed great. [chuckle]

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Should we take a break?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, let’s take a break!

MIKE JOHNSON

But- Why am I looking around the room looking for things to put up my ass?

KYLE GETZ

Oh, God, where- Do you have a cucumber?

MIKE JOHNSON

[chuckle] Break.

[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]

This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!

MIKE JOHNSON

Are we back?

KYLE GETZ

We’re back! [laughing]

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re back! [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first, our website is gayishpodcast.com.

KYLE GETZ

We are on so much social, @gayishpodcast Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook. Uh, we also have a Facebook group. We have a Discord group where everyone helps each other out and teaches people how to bottom and stuff. If you need more details from multiple sources, check those out.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep. Yep, absolutely. I highly recommend it. And there’s send nudes. Uh, our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails at 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.

KYLE GETZ

Our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.

MIKE JOHNSON

And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109. And, uh yeah, real quick, I really very much would like the author of [The] Deviant’s War, Eric Cervini, Dr. Eric Cervini- I want everyone to harass him until he comes on the show.

KYLE GETZ

Har- Okay, not harass.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay, just be persistent.

KYLE GETZ

I mean-

MIKE JOHNSON

Get his attention for me.

KYLE GETZ

We wanted to have him on to talk about Pride and stuff. Um, and he knows so much shit, and, uh, yeah. So, if a bunch of-

MIKE JOHNSON

On both Instagram and Twitter he is @ericcervini. That’s E-R-I-C-C-E-R-V-I-N-I.

KYLE GETZ

So, follow him. Well- At least- Well, there’s the plus side. But hey, say, like- Say “Hey, be on Gayish.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Do it.

KYLE GETZ

We’re now- You are all our PR firm. If that works, we’ll, you know, find a way to get Pe- Petey boy on through this tactic.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

Uh, Gayest & Straightest?

MIKE JOHNSON

Let’s do our Gayest & Straightest! I’ll go first.

KYLE GETZ

Great.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great! Uh, the straightest thing about me this week is doing the laundry and then just saying “I am not folding these sheets, fuck it.” [Kyle chuckles] Fitted sheets- Folding fitted sheets is fucking stupid, I fucking hate it, it’s dumb, and I don’t do it. So I just threw them into a drawer.

KYLE GETZ

The improved quality by folding, versus balling up, is so minimal, it- Yeah, I completely agree.

MIKE JOHNSON

Absolutely. Um-

KYLE GETZ

Or I do this, like, half folding. Like, I know it’s not going to work, so I, like, kind of make folds out of it, but it just- Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm, mhm, mhm. I end up with a clusterfuck every single time.

KYLE GETZ

Yep, yep.

MIKE JOHNSON

Not in a good way.

KYLE GETZ

Yep, yep.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uhh, the gayest thing about me this week. So, the bars are back open. I went out to the bars, and- Hey Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Hey- Oh, hey Mike.

MIKE JOHNSON

How do I feel about tequila?

KYLE GETZ

Da-dun-da-da-da-da-dun-da. You hate it! [Everyone chuckles]

MIKE JOHNSON

I hate it so much, right?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, flatly refuse?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, it’s- Just- You will- You don’t drink. You don’t even drink margaritas. Like, even people that don’t like tequila might drink things like margaritas, and, no.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep. I let a cute boy talk me into doing a shot of tequila, because he was cute. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

[gasp] Yeah, how’d that go?

MIKE JOHNSON

It was fuckin’ terrible!

KYLE GETZ

No one likes shots of tequila.

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean-

KYLE GETZ

That’s a lie, but.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, it was- Mm-mm, nope. But, just the fact that I was, like, thinking with my dick, and I was like, [Kyle laughs] “Maybe- Maybe I can- Maybe I can make this tequila thing happen, just this once, for the first time in 30 years.”

KYLE GETZ

Is it so bad that you, like, act like-

MIKE JOHNSON

30 years? I was not drinking tequila at 12. [laughing] I don’t know what’s- Why did I say that?! Okay, sorry, go ahead.

KYLE GETZ

You’re right, it was the least 13 when you started your tequila.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, exactly.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Uhh, me? Should I go?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, do it.

KYLE GETZ

Am I the only other one? Um, gayest: I went to dinner, because, all these things we can start to do now. I went to dinner, and there was this, like, blonde lady sitting next to us that just had eye makeup and the bun that was the most forward on your head that it can be. She was really sweet, and like, somehow, like, our tables started talking, and she was talking to me, and- Um, you know the thing that people get into, where they’re like, you know, “I am super down with anything. I’m, like- Oh, you’re gay? Like, oh, I have- You know, this friend has a gay-” Like, this one? And that used to be stuff I got annoyed at, like, [self-mockingly] “Oh, I’m gay and the only other thing you know is-” Um, I have just turned this corner where I’m like, you know what? This person is doing what they can to be supportive, and telling me how down they are. You know, it’s- It’s clear they’re trying, and telling me about their other gay person that they- You, know, it’s just- It’s their genuine intent to connect and show you how supportive they are, so I’ve completely changed on that, and that was very sweet.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

But that moment is a moment that only gay people get, of like, “Oh, I know another gay,” or like, “Oh, I support you,” because that’s not assumed.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

The straightest, I changed, when I spilled water on your hardwood floor and I cleaned it up with my sock.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, [laughter] I came out of the bathroom and you’re like, doing this weird, like, Hokey Pokey dance.

KYLE GETZ

It was different from the sliding we were doing earlier. It was like- I just- You know.

MIKE JOHNSON

I did so much twirling earlier.

KYLE GETZ

That’s your gayest thing. [mutual laughter] Uh, do we have a listener?

MIKE JOHNSON

We have a listener’s Gayest & Straightest. Uh, this one comes to us from Johnny Mont Melanson- Johnny Melanson, on Discord. JJ Saxophonist, I think, is his alias on Discord? Anyway, said “Straightest: Going to my brother’s bachelor party with all his straight friends for a weekend in Maine.”

KYLE GETZ

Uh- Oh, I was expecting Vegas. I, just- Bachelor party. Yeah. Ahh, bachelor parties.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. “Gayest: At the bachelor party, the boys were talking about a straight porn star. I looked him up, and I literally said out loud, “I’ve had bigger,” [Kyle laughs] and all their mouths dropped. [laughter]

KYLE GETZ

It’s so funny when you’re around straight people, and they, like- It’s like, “You talk this way about women, but when I say it, like-” That’s so- I love that, that’s so fun.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

Um, speaking of people with huge dicks, these are our Super Gap Bridgers.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

No, every dick matters, regardless of size. We didn’t talk about this one to bother being like, dick size. Like, [quietly] I’m- Sometimes I want, like, small or medium, to- Anyway, um, it’s just a different experience. Anyway, that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about the variety of dicks that support us, uh, including Patrick Martin, Anonymous, Christopher Farrell, Jamie Pugh, Tipsy McStumbles, Thomas B., Dusty Sands, Jerome York, Chris Khachaturian, and Cian and Javi.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Thanks, everybody!

KYLE GETZ

Thanks everybody!

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, you have to say all their names twice now, because I didn’t say them last week.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

Because you were gone.

KYLE GETZ

PatrickMartinAnonymousChristopherFarrellJamiePughTipsyMcStumblesThomasB.DustySandsJeromeYorkChrisKhachaturianCianandJavi.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great, good job. Yep. A special thank you to bottoms everywhere!

KYLE GETZ

[chuckle] Thank you for taking it!

MIKE JOHNSON

Thank you for taking it.

KYLE GETZ

And, you don’t have to take it! [mutual laughter] If you take it. Without bottoms, there would be no tops.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah… I think that’s true.

KYLE GETZ

Mike’s-

MIKE JOHNSON

I think that’s true.

KYLE GETZ

Mike’s doing the math on that, [Mike laughs] which he doesn’t need to. At this point in the episode he doesn’t need to fact check anything. [laughter]

MIKE JOHNSON

That is it. This has been Gayish, from the Cian and Javi Studio. I’m Mike Johnson.

KYLE GETZ

I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you.

MIKE JOHNSON

On your back.

KYLE GETZ

Take it. [Mike laughs]

[Outro music plays, instrumental]

[Remixed voice sample of KYLE GETZ]

Without bottoms there would be no tops. Without bottoms there would be no tops. Without- Without- Without- Without bottoms there would be no tops. Without bottoms there would be no to- to- to- tops. Without bottoms there would be no- Without bottoms there would be no- Without bottoms there would be no tops.Withoutbottomstherewouldbenotops.

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