Gayish: 179 Gay Baiting

As requested by Patreon member Tipsy McStumbles (obvi a Gayish listener), we talk about gay baiting, i.e. queerbaiting. What is it? Does Nick Jonas qualify? What does Urban Dictionary think? And what does it have to do with breast cancer?

In this episode: News- 5:19 || Main Topic (Gay Baiting)- 23:35 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:06:52

If you want some gayish rewards, including the opportunity to pick your own episode topic, go to


Mike Johnson 0:00
[intro music, sung] When you know that you are queer, but your favorite drink is beer that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish . Life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.

Mike Johnson 0:21
Hello everyone in the podcast universe. This is gayish.

Kyle Getz 0:24
The proud creators of the first ever olfactory podcast. Wait, wait, don’t smell me.

Mike Johnson 0:30
No, I don’t want to

Kyle Getz 0:32
Nope. We’ve already signed on for a three season deal with the podcasting Company of America.

Mike Johnson 0:39
Oh god. I’m Mike Johnson.

Kyle Getz 0:41
I’m Kyle Getz.

Mike Johnson 0:42
We’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality and today

Kyle Getz 0:45
Today, we’re gonna

Mike Johnson 0:47
what are we talking about?

Kyle Getz 0:48
Let’s just talk about life. Mike. What’s new?

Mike Johnson 0:51
What’s new? We’re here in person together.

Kyle Getz 0:54
Oh, yeah.

Mike Johnson 0:54
Talking on microphones in the same room

Kyle Getz 0:57
as permitted by King County. phase we moved from phase 1.5 to phase two.

Mike Johnson 1:04
Yep. getting back to normal one half of a phase at a time.

Kyle Getz 1:09
Yep. There’s no two and a half is there.

Mike Johnson 1:11
I fucking hope not

Kyle Getz 1:12
there might be

Mike Johnson 1:13
I hate that shit so much. have I bitched about that too many times yet. you can’t have a four phase play on and say here’s like the medical, like the data reasons to move from one to the other and then invent a 1.5 to make people happy because it makes me lose confidence in the whole fucking system.

Kyle Getz 1:29
Yeah, I mean, did you was there still any confidence? I’m, I’m just we’re gonna talk about gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 1:36
We’re gonna talk about gay baiting

Kyle Getz 1:37
as requested, as requested by Patreon member tipsy mcstumbles

Mike Johnson 1:42
that boy hot. I’m sorry. He is.

Kyle Getz 1:47

Mike Johnson 1:48
Wait, wait, that’s okay.

Kyle Getz 1:49
You cant say that.

Mike Johnson 1:50
Why not?

Kyle Getz 1:51
That’s weird.

Mike Johnson 1:53
What if there is some like real hot dudes out there that like, want to give us money because they know they’ll get attention. When they do

Kyle Getz 2:02
well then all the uglies are gonna feel bad if we do like a Patreon episode for someone that’s ugly and you’re like he was very nice, then they’re gonna be like oh no,

Mike Johnson 2:11
but when he’s when his name when he when he donated under the name tipsy McStumbles when we saw him on camera, I was like, That boy doesn’t fall down much at all. Like,

Kyle Getz 2:19
you don’t you don’t know. um gay bating

Mike Johnson 2:23
gay bating.

Kyle Getz 2:24
But first

Mike Johnson 2:24
But first, but first we have a correction. That sort of. Okay, so a couple of people wrote in about the IAT the Implicit Association test, which we talked about in the gay white privilege episode, that you can go to and have it check your implicit biases against things specifically people of color black people, is one of the options for the test to take. And that test is not without controversy. There are valid criticisms that’s being started. All the time. There are lots of different publications out there and in papers that have been written about its validity or lack thereof. And I just want to acknowledge that that’s, that’s real. ]

Kyle Getz 3:14
Are you gonna tell me the criticisms? Or is it

Mike Johnson 3:16
if you want to go into them? We can.

Kyle Getz 3:18
Is it interesting?

Mike Johnson 3:19
Well, it’s interesting, but it’s also lengthy. So I won’t I won’t go into that. But yeah, I think a couple of things. So first, it’s not like a slam dunk. The it’s totally horseshit. And everyone agrees that it’s horseshit. And we’re bad people for suggesting it that because that’s not the case. It’s just it’s contested and is controversial. And the but the other thing is, I think that that the idea that there even could possibly be a test for this. And it having it encourage a person to ask themselves Am I racist? And then maybe take the test. I think there’s valid like there’s utility and just that everybody should ask themselves that every day.

Kyle Getz 4:06
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, and like we said, the answer is yes. Like you. You are you exist within a racist system that white people like us. Yeah.

Mike Johnson 4:19
Mm hmm.

Kyle Getz 4:21
Equally important correction or clarification? SpongeBob has a butt

Mike Johnson 4:25
he does have a butt that’s true.

Kyle Getz 4:27
We got several pictures in our Facebook group of his butt. it’s a little bit juicier than I thought for a sponge.

Mike Johnson 4:35
Well, and then like, so his pants had like a swivel the door that opened up and then like the juicy cheeks were right behind it. And I was like, like, SpongeBob your pants don’t fit.

Kyle Getz 4:48
Maybe that’s the part where like, maybe water has specifically soaked into that part. And so it like inflated it.

Mike Johnson 4:54
Oh, is that how you get a bigger butt just sit in the bathtub

Kyle Getz 4:57
under water. We don’t need to go into the physics of how spongebob works because that’s not interesting because it doesn’t Okay. Cool. Thanks for people that sent that in.

Mike Johnson 5:06
Yep. Yep.

Kyle Getz 5:07
both equally.

Mike Johnson 5:08
Yep, exactly.

Kyle Getz 5:10

Mike Johnson 5:11
news time for the news.

Kyle Getz 5:12
[to the theme of “toxic” by Britney Spears] du, duh dudududuh du duhduhduh, neeee-ews neeee-ws.

Mike Johnson 5:16
it was only a matter of time. It’s so good to see you. That’s weird.

Kyle Getz 5:21
It’s fine seeing you.

Mike Johnson 5:21
Okay, great.

Kyle Getz 5:23
No, it’s it’s good hanging out in person and getting to look at you not on a screen.

Mike Johnson 5:27
Yep. Yep. I agree. I agree. Dan.

Kyle Getz 5:30
Dan is off this week.

Mike Johnson 5:31
Dan is off this week, but he will be back. Yeah, some people have said that they’re worried about him and maybe rightly so.

Kyle Getz 5:37
No, he’s well, he’s alive in a person.

Mike Johnson 5:39
And, and he’ll be back.

Kyle Getz 5:40

Mike Johnson 5:41
Okay, great. Um, so, first of all, I want to talk about the Republican Party’s 2020 platform. Which has been more or less finalized in in preparation for the Republican National Convention in Jacksonville, Florida. Coming up,

Kyle Getz 6:01
where I think we said we’re gonna go and like, wait in the bathroom stalls or something.

Mike Johnson 6:05

Kyle Getz 6:05
Just to see, or like, get on Grindr.

Mike Johnson 6:07
Yeah, talk about glory holes. Let’s, let’s bring that although I would be so afraid of hooking up lindsey graham on accident. Okay. So a couple of things. First of all, they’ve made no changes. So it’s exactly the same platform as 2016, which is hilarious because there are wide sections of the platform that now criticize the current administration, because it’s not Obama anymore. The current administration fucked this up, the current administration fucked that up. It’s still in their platform,

Kyle Getz 6:36
which I mean, they were excusing that because of Corona that they weren’t going to get together and change it. But I also like, that’s the purpose of virtual, I don’t know, whatever,

Mike Johnson 6:47
expect Republicans to figure out

Kyle Getz 6:48
Old republicans

Mike Johnson 6:50
how to do anything online.

Kyle Getz 6:52
What- they’re the same ones that are like, how do you get the internet to open like I can’t? Yeah,

Mike Johnson 6:59
yep. And it’s important I think for us to talk about is gayish and makes the news because that means their platform continues to condemn obergefell versus Hodges which legalized marriage equality across America. It insists in their platform in the fucking written down This is what republicans stand for. You can’t fucking deny it. Quote five unelected lawyers robbed. 320 million Americans have their legitimate constitutional authority to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman. The court twisted the meaning of the 14th amendment beyond recognition. We did not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration, or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the States.

Kyle Getz 7:41
I remember when I got twisted beyond recognition. I miss it so much Mike

Mike Johnson 7:46
You never really recovered though. Like,

Kyle Getz 7:49

Mike Johnson 7:49
you haven’t been the same ever since

Kyle Getz 7:51
ever since what

Mike Johnson 7:52
you got twisted beyond recognition.

Kyle Getz 7:54
What are you talking? I’m talking about getting slammed real good. What do you talking about?

Mike Johnson 7:57
That’s what I’m talking about.

Kyle Getz 7:59
Are you talking about once specific instance

Mike Johnson 8:00
that one time when you left and when you came back, you’re like a changed man because you, you got railed so good.

Kyle Getz 8:06
I don’t remember this one.

Mike Johnson 8:07
Me either I’m inventing it

Kyle Getz 8:09
Oh, okay. I couldn’t. I didn’t know. Okay, sorry, I wasn’t playing along.

Mike Johnson 8:14

Kyle Getz 8:14

Mike Johnson 8:15

Kyle Getz 8:15

Mike Johnson 8:16

Kyle Getz 8:17
Yeah, I think people are still surprised that that is written down in their platform. And that’s why it’s- there lots of reasons that I would be- disagree with Republican platform. But it’s kind of just the easy go to of like, you don’t agree that I deserve the right, you have written down that you don’t think I am equal.

Mike Johnson 8:37

Kyle Getz 8:37
Like, I don’t. You are directly by voting for any republican you are directly voting for a platform that doesn’t think I’m equal. And you can justify that there might be a lot of different reasons you say that you’re voting for them, but you have to recognize at the same time you were voting for someone who doesn’t think I should be able to get married.

Mike Johnson 8:58
Yep. Yep. Can’t get around it.

Kyle Getz 9:02

Mike Johnson 9:03
I mean and the other Yep. One thing I see that I always chuckle at is the just because you vote republican doesn’t mean you’re anti gay. But it means that being anti gay isn’t a deal breaker for you, so need to get right with that Because that’s indeed what that party stands for.

Kyle Getz 9:18
Yep. Yep.

Mike Johnson 9:21
So speaking of the RNC, which is happening soon, the log cabin Republicans, which is an organization of

Kyle Getz 9:29
that existsin a paradoxical world,and I don’t understand

Mike Johnson 9:33
it’s gay republicans are called log cabin Republicans. They have been denied the right to have a booth at the convention.

Kyle Getz 9:41
So again, right don’t get consistently get denied?

Mike Johnson 9:45
again, for the 20th year in a row. The state republican executive committee has denied the LGBTQ group a booth at the state’s upcoming republican convention.

Kyle Getz 9:55
Did we talk- we talked about this with Patreon like happy hour thing we did And I think, okay, I might have a little bit different viewpoint of that in that I understand the idea of working within a group that’s homophobic to try to make it less homophobic. Um, and I think I think back to Joseph Peters Matthews talking about like, yes, religion is, Christianity is homophobic. Also he believes it and wants to- and is working to change that and, you know, so yeah, it sucks for them that but they also they should know because it’s in the platform like Yeah,

Mike Johnson 10:37
yep, yep, yep. Yep. Okay, good.

Kyle Getz 10:41
Okay cool

Mike Johnson 10:43
I don’t feel bad for them. But then I do like I feel bad for them in that tragic way.

Kyle Getz 10:47
Yeah. Like, like, when you feel bad for like closeted people that, you know, stay in the closet. And it’s like, it sucks because I get why it’s society’s pressure. But

Mike Johnson 10:59
Yep. So a little bit of good news. So the, for the longest time, children born outside the country to married gay couples were not automatically considered US citizens, even in the case of surrogacy. So basically the I’ll just read this a federal judge ruled Wednesday that the US State Department must recognize that the daughter of a same sex couple in Maryland has been a US citizen since her birth in Canada via a surrogate last year. So the Trump administration had said that the child was not because it was born out of wedlock. That the child was born out of wedlock because one of her married parents is not her biological parent.

Kyle Getz 11:56
Oh, like the biological parents are not married. So it’s- got it

Mike Johnson 12:01
correct. So, the father say their daughter is being denied the birthright citizenship she’s entitled to as the child of American parents because her parents are a same sex married couple.

Kyle Getz 12:12
I take it. If straight people’s child is born in Canada, they would be considered a US citizen

Mike Johnson 12:20
if they are married to each other. So like in 30 rock when they wouldn’t when jack Donaghy is worried that his child’s going to be born in Canada, doesn’t matter. You’re still an American citizen under those under those circumstances because you’re born to American parents.

Kyle Getz 12:33
Got it.

Mike Johnson 12:33
Anyway. that’s now been fixed. So the judge ruled that the child was indeed a US citizen at birth. And that closes a fairly significant loophole that’s been a problem for gay married couples trying to do international surrogacy for a while.

Kyle Getz 12:52
That’s great.

Mike Johnson 12:53

Kyle Getz 12:53

Mike Johnson 12:54
Ta da.

Kyle Getz 12:54
Da da da da!

Mike Johnson 12:59
I think that’s… no okay. I we also need we also need to talk about just briefly, the the landmark decision that happened last week, we had a happy hour and a bunch of people came on zoom to talk about it, but I guess we haven’t talked about it on the show.

Kyle Getz 13:14

Mike Johnson 13:15
so time to at least a little bit. So, six to three, the Supreme Court ruled that you cannot be fired for being gay or trans. Nationwide, starting immediately right now.

Kyle Getz 13:25

Mike Johnson 13:26
And it was a big surprise because it was a six to three decision. And the opinion was written by Neil Gorsuch, who was a Trump appointee, the one that stole Merrick Garland seat. And it’s a it’s a big, big deal. Some people say bigger than gay marriage.

Kyle Getz 13:40

Mike Johnson 13:41
But yeah, I mean, we’ve been bitching about being able to be fired in other states for being gay for a long time. We can’t say it anymore, Kyle.

Kyle Getz 13:46
Oh, no. Well, we can bitch about- Okay. Well, what was interesting about when we talked on the call, like, there were people that were smart on the call, so I’m like, here’s what I think and people were like i dunno… but the possibility is That then says title seven…?

Mike Johnson 14:02

Kyle Getz 14:02
oh my god I got that right. Thank you. I was preemptively thanking, everyone, because I’m sure they were excited. And

Mike Johnson 14:09
I could hear the applause already.

Kyle Getz 14:11
Yes. That could then mean that when they talk about sex in the in title seven, that now sex includes things like being trans being gay being bi, all that good stuff. So it’s possible this could extend beyond just employment. It sounds like that’s not for sure. Like that’s kind of the question then does this extend beyond employment but there’s still things like housing. There’s one more thing that everyone brings up that can’t think of but

Mike Johnson 14:41
yeah, there’s there’s there’s precedent for the definitions in title seven to affect things outside of title seven that’s happened before. And so the thought is that maybe that will happen this time. Also, just because it’s happened before. What’s interesting, so title seven, it’s the title is title seven of the civil Rights Act of 1964. And it prohibits discrimination based on race, religion, national origin and sex. And the court ruled that sex includes sexual orientation. And it’s really pretty cut and dry. Like Neil Gorsuch lays it out in the first page of the opinion. If I am Susan’s manager, and I find out she has a boyfriend, and I do nothing, and I also David’s manager, and I find out that he has a boyfriend, and I fire him. The only difference between Susan and David is their gender. That is gender discrimination. That is sex discrimination, and therefore is illegal under the title. It’s pretty easy, I think to understand

Kyle Getz 15:40
Yeah, though. I think you’ve explained that to me. Even before this you should be a Supreme Court something.

Mike Johnson 15:45
Thank you.

Kyle Getz 15:45
You’re welcome. And I really liked that way of thinking about it because it made it very obvious. Didn’t the dissenters mostly disagree on like, not on the idea that but more like technical.

Mike Johnson 16:02
So textualists, which is another way of saying conservative when it comes to like Supreme Court stuff. They believe that you have to interpret the law based on what Congress understood the text to be when they wrote it. And their argument is Congress in 1964, when they wrote down the word sex, there’s no way they were possibly thinking about homosexuals. Therefore, we can’t retroactively put it in there now,

Kyle Getz 16:28
which they probably weren’t like, that’s true. Like,

Mike Johnson 16:30
yes. But there’s, there’s precedent to say. I mean, the the easy to understand argument that I just laid out means it is about sex. And there’s precedent that says, There might be other explanations, but if this very basic explanation covers it, that’s all you need. And anyway, yeah,

Kyle Getz 16:53
yeah, that was a surprise Pride Month. You know, we just needed something good.

Mike Johnson 16:58
Honest to God. I thought it was gonna Four to five the wrong way. Ended up being six to three is

Kyle Getz 17:03
Yeah, six to three. I even I know way less than you and that was like surprised by

Mike Johnson 17:08
Yeah. Because the four splits are like every decision.

Kyle Getz 17:12
Yes like yes.

Mike Johnson 17:14
And then last but not least I want to continue the queer black person from history.

Kyle Getz 17:20

Mike Johnson 17:20
segment for the month. And I want to talk about Willie ninja.

Kyle Getz 17:24
No. Bill ninja?

Mike Johnson 17:28
Yeah, do you know

Kyle Getz 17:29
no, I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I already love him.

Mike Johnson 17:32
Yep. William Roscoe Leake was born April 12 1961, and is better known as Willie ninja. He was an American dancer and choreographer, best known for his appearance in the documentary film. Paris is burning.

Kyle Getz 17:47
I have not seen that. And that seems like one of those staples that I need to see.

Mike Johnson 17:51
Yeah, I haven’t seen it either. Maybe we’ll watch it after this.

Kyle Getz 17:53
Oh, that’d be smart.

Mike Johnson 17:54
So ninja is a gay man and he is known as the godfather of voguing

Kyle Getz 18:01

Mike Johnson 18:02
So it was a fixture of ball culture at Harlem’s drag balls and he took inspiration from sources as far flung as Fred Astaire, the world of haute couture to develop a unique style of dance and movement and then

Kyle Getz 18:14
Hey Mike

Mike Johnson 18:15
Hey Kyle

Kyle Getz 18:16

Mike Johnson 18:17
ball, ball.

Kyle Getz 18:18
Okay, keep going.

Mike Johnson 18:21
I mean, basically he was a self taught dancer, perfected the voguing style, because of his appearance in that documentary was sort of raised elevated to the level of being like the face of of voguing pre Madonna. Not prima donna.

Kyle Getz 18:40

Mike Johnson 18:41
Before Madonna.

Kyle Getz 18:41
Pre. Madonna. I used to think that prima donna was, like, yeah that confused me,

Mike Johnson 18:50
but, um, let’s see he. The name ninja came from the fact that he had founded the house of ninja voguing is built around this idea of houses. And that’s the house that he formed. It’s a combination of extended social family and dance troupe. He

Kyle Getz 19:10
particularly because you know, a lot of people especially at that time, and still today like get kicked out of their homes. So that’s the idea of, you know, chosen family or your house or your, you know, your mother

Mike Johnson 19:21
he was the house mother, that’s motherhood that is that that is the term. Thank you for putting that word in my mouth that’s not working right now. Um, and then he passed away of AIDS related complications at the age of 45. In on September 2 2006. I

Kyle Getz 19:42
we always, we always think about like the the or at least, I should say, I think about the people that we lost to AIDS in the 80s and 90s. But also like, that generation, we kept losing them throughout like that’s such an influential, important person that we lost earlier Than we would have in the 2000s due to AIDS. Yeah,

Mike Johnson 20:04
yep. Yep. I also I want to put in here. I mean, we just have to own it. Black people invented voguing. If you think it’s Madonna’s thing, she fucking stole it.

Kyle Getz 20:17

Mike Johnson 20:18
It’s just another example of white people stealing pop culture shit from black people, and not giving them any sort of credit or recognition for it.

Kyle Getz 20:25
Yeah, yep. Yep.

Mike Johnson 20:27
That’s it.

Kyle Getz 20:27
Whoa, okay.

Mike Johnson 20:29
Willie ninja.

Kyle Getz 20:30
I had no idea and that’s like one of those names. I’m trying to do better at learning. Gay, queer black people from history and in general, like queer people from history, but that’s an important one that I’m glad I know about. Bayard Rustin is the other one that I was like, I’m gonna- I need to remember this name. That’s

Mike Johnson 20:50

Kyle Getz 20:51
Yep. Super influential in MLK is, you know, policies, thoughts, beliefs, around the time of the civil rights movement and doesn’t get a Lot of credit and

Mike Johnson 21:01
we’ve talked about him before though,

Kyle Getz 21:03
but I forget so I like made it a point I like had it on my computer. So every time I looked at it and I said his name over and over and over so I could remember cuz that’s such an important person. Okay.

Mike Johnson 21:14
That’s the news.

Kyle Getz 21:15
That’s the news. Okay, um, I want to thank Patreon members Juan Cordero. I got to use my Spanish accent. Accento espanol. What?

Mike Johnson 21:30

Kyle Getz 21:30
Juan Cordero. Yeah. And Derek, that’s not a Spanish thing. But I’m already in the accent so might as well. Q Davis, which I just wanted to be q when I saw that

Mike Johnson 21:45
Like just the letter Q?

Kyle Getz 21:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Q period. Okay, Davis, but I’m just gonna call them Q.

Mike Johnson 21:51

Kyle Getz 21:51
Thank you. Q.

Mike Johnson 21:53
Remember q Bert, do you remember that game? Or the cartoon?

Kyle Getz 21:57
I remember a cartoon.

Mike Johnson 21:58
Great. Continue

Kyle Getz 21:59
barely In that I’ve heard that anyway, uh, Alex Claus.

Mike Johnson 22:04

Kyle Getz 22:05
The Alex clause you can what Alex, What is the what is the clause? What are what’s allowed because you’re Alex?

Mike Johnson 22:11

Kyle Getz 22:12
Um, and Arthur.

Mike Johnson 22:14
Just Arthur.

Kyle Getz 22:17
Guess what Mike?

Mike Johnson 22:19
Hey Kyle.

Kyle Getz 22:20
Oh, hey, Mike.

Mike Johnson 22:21
Was it Arthur the ardvark from that cartoon?

Kyle Getz 22:24
No, that’s Polari word of the week

Kyle Getz 22:27
I snuck it in a different place than usual.

Mike Johnson 22:29
Oh, great.

Kyle Getz 22:30
The word Arthur means this is relevant to the topic. Barely. masturbate.

Mike Johnson 22:37
Oh, neat. Arthur.

Kyle Getz 22:40

Mike Johnson 22:40
Is it a verb? Like I’m gonna go arthur right now

Kyle Getz 22:42
intransitive verb. Wait, is that how- VI, intransit- Is that a thing? intransitive. feels like you’re on a bus.

Mike Johnson 22:51
I mean, a transitive verb.

Kyle Getz 22:53
I don’t know. Then Yes, it’s a verb. I don’t know why I tried to elaborate. Yes, it’s a verb. to Arthur. you can Arthur. go Arthur in the corner.

Mike Johnson 23:00
I’ve been arthuring so much in quarantine.

Kyle Getz 23:03
I’ve seen all the porn. thank you to all of our Patreon members if you want a bonus, a bonus episode, and a bonus thing and shirts. I don’t know. This is so great. You can get high quality shit like this

Mike Johnson 23:22

Kyle Getz 23:22
Should we do the episode?

Mike Johnson 23:24
Yeah, sure. let’s get let’s get to that.

Kyle Getz 23:26
Okay, okay. This is about gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 23:29
Gay baiting.

Kyle Getz 23:31
Can I start?

Mike Johnson 23:32

Kyle Getz 23:33

Mike Johnson 23:33
Yeah, go for it. Do you have gayta on bate gate. Oh, God gayta on bait gating?

Kyle Getz 23:38

Mike Johnson 23:38
gayta on gay baiting.

Kyle Getz 23:40
I think you did it.

Mike Johnson 23:41
Oh fuck. I’m just gonna arthur.

Kyle Getz 23:45
wait till I leave. Uh, okay. So I’m gonna tell you both define gay baiting. And no, I have vague data later, but not right now. I’m going to tell you both about gay baiting that definition and also other baiting, just so we know what it’s not

Mike Johnson 24:01
Oh sure. Okay

Kyle Getz 24:02
on Urban Dictionary

Mike Johnson 24:03

Kyle Getz 24:04
I looked up all the all the different batings that I could find

Mike Johnson 24:07
this bit should get a name and maybe a theme song I won’t write.

Kyle Getz 24:14
It can just be the Mike hasn’t written a theme song theme song. No, it needs to be something more interesting if you have an idea for what this is called. Let us know. Gay baiting. It is a straight person according to urban dictionary, a straight person outwardly welcoming flirtatious behavior from homosexuals of the same gender? Oh gotcha. That confused me at first because I’m thinking dude,s because I that’s how I do. flirtatious behavior from homosexuals of the same gender in order to receive validation and entertainment. will often play the line of being flirtatious in return, but once it becomes physical, the gay bater will retract and continually assert their heterosexuality.

Mike Johnson 25:03
yeah, I mean like that’s the that’s the stereotype or the trope or whatever right the straight guy that loves to hang out at the gay bar and like loves it until he gets hit on and he’s like oh yeah

Kyle Getz 25:13
or or might be down to like get hit on enjoys that but then you try to make out with him and then he says no Kyle I don’t want that and then throws his drink in your face and you have to go home all wet and sad

Mike Johnson 25:24
that’s the template

Kyle Getz 25:25
thats the definition probably. call me Jeremy if you change your mind. Okay, other baits

Mike Johnson 25:34
Great. Okay,

Kyle Getz 25:36
bait I didn’t know this. This is like a pretty popular one

Mike Johnson 25:39
b-a-i-t or b-a-t-e?

Kyle Getz 25:41
b-a-i-t. when something is made blatantly obvious for example, it was so bait that you stole my phone. Never heard that but lots of people voted for that. So okay, cool.

Mike Johnson 25:55
Okay. I mean, I was thinking like clickbait or like,

Kyle Getz 25:58
Oh, yeah, no, no No.

Mike Johnson 26:00
Okay good.

Kyle Getz 26:01
But I mean yes, but that’s another thing a baitin’, masturbating.

Mike Johnson 26:05

Kyle Getz 26:05
Or arthuring. Arthur?

Mike Johnson 26:07

Kyle Getz 26:08

Mike Johnson 26:08
just- I’m just arthurin’.

Kyle Getz 26:10
Oh, that sounds like You have joint pain. I’m Arthurin’. I keep cracking my knuckles so I have athurin. bro baiting.

Mike Johnson 26:18

Kyle Getz 26:19
jerking off with your bro.

Mike Johnson 26:21
Oh my god. so many people seem to think that that’s what happened to my fraternity and they just

Kyle Getz 26:28
and it did! don’t say any more.

Mike Johnson 26:32

Kyle Getz 26:32
it never did.

Mike Johnson 26:34

Kyle Getz 26:35

Mike Johnson 26:36

Kyle Getz 26:37
never? you can’t say that definitively

Mike Johnson 26:40
not to my knowledge.

Kyle Getz 26:41
yeah cuz they knew you’re gay.

Mike Johnson 26:43
I don’t think so. Maybe they did

Kyle Getz 26:46
I just want it so bad. okay, baiting call: a male who thinks he’s making progress with a girl he’s trying to fuck- oh, is trying to make a baiting call happened not a mating call So he’s he’s trying to trying to hook up with a girl and it’s not a mating call he’s trying to he thinks he’s making progress. So it’s a baiting call.

Mike Johnson 27:09

Kyle Getz 27:10
There is this one won’t won’t come off as cool when you’re- because I’m saying and not writing it, but gr8 b8 m8. But like,

Mike Johnson 27:19
with the 8?

Kyle Getz 27:21
yeah, so gr eight, B eight and m eight. And that’s used like if someone’s obviously trolling you or trying to say something to like, Oh, my favorite characters Jar Jar Binks.

Mike Johnson 27:32
gr8 b8 m8.

Kyle Getz 27:33
Exactly. Have you heard of that? You seem to-

Mike Johnson 27:36
No But It makes sense.

Kyle Getz 27:37
Yeah, you just rolled with it. And lastly, raw bait, which is better than it even sounds when you show someone only your raw dick to bait them, but you’re actually ugly. And the only good thing about you is your penis.

Mike Johnson 27:55
Oh no.

Kyle Getz 27:57
sometimes that’s enough. Sometimes I see a dick and I’m like, I don’t need you to do anything else but have that dick.

Mike Johnson 28:04

Kyle Getz 28:06
I want that.

Mike Johnson 28:06
How many times on scruff or Grindr? Has there not even been a profile picture? And then you’ve gotten a direct message from them. And the first thing is just a dick.

Kyle Getz 28:16
Yep. Or okay. That’s fine. I understand that. Not really don’t do that, like be a little or whatever.

Mike Johnson 28:23
Everyone once in a while it’s a real good dick.

Kyle Getz 28:25
Well, now they have those things like accepts NSF dubs pictures, and you can say yes or no. What I’m confused about is when people send me their buttholes as like the first picture like I don’t get to know me a little bit before you sent me. dick I get it.

Mike Johnson 28:42

Kyle Getz 28:42
Butthole? Like let’s talk a little bit.

Mike Johnson 28:45
I mean, number one, rude. Number two, not the end I’m looking for.

Kyle Getz 28:49
Yes. This is wrong on all the levels that it could be. Okay, so the last thing I’ll say, I was lying when I said the last thing was the last thing. Um, Gay baiting so the thing we’re talking about where to like, like trying to attract homos. Um, the more positive word for that is, I don’t know how to say H O Y A Y. hoyay? which is short for homoeroticism Yay. That is when there is homoerotic subtext to a movie or TV show or whatever.

Mike Johnson 29:26
Okay, like all of Teen Wolf.

Kyle Getz 29:30
Teen Wolf was like No, no, I didn’t include it was almost one of my examples. But um yeah, so that’s kind of the there a lot of it is the subtext, the homoeroticism in gay baiting as well. So that’s the like the flip side of it’s the same thing but it’s like cool. We like it, hoyay. So those are the definitions I have.

Mike Johnson 29:51
Great. Let’s get to the fun stuff where shirtless guy sell us stuff.

Kyle Getz 29:54
Oh, okay. I love it. Are you talking about that?

Mike Johnson 29:59
So Let’s talk about queerbaiting then. So in the Patreon segment, I just talked about gay baiting as a political thing back in the day. But usually in the modern context, when we say gay baiting, or queerbaiting, we’re talking about the phenomenon of fiction and entertainment in which the creators hint at but then do not actually depict same sex romance or other LGBTQ representation.

Kyle Getz 30:26
And it’s I mean, like, the more colloquial definition also seems to be like someone doing something specifically for the gays to get them interested in something. I mean, I guess like the subtext is kind of there but I just feel like there’s a little bit of a different like, those definitions don’t totally capture the idea of like, doing something specifically for gays to try to get their interest and

Mike Johnson 30:51
Yep, yep, well, and something I mean, language is messy and and it’s not up to me or anybody to decide. words what they mean. I guess I can’t say that. I can’t say that. I’m a prescriptivists sometimes, I guess but, but it’s I’m learning at least from what I was reading in preparation for this episode, the queerbaiting is not as broad as I thought it was, but that queerbaiting is specifically in media in entertainment. Either just hinting at or making jokes about a character’s sexuality or even, like retconning their sexuality a-la that bitch so we can’t say the name of any more in Harry Potter saying that Dumbledore was gay. When there’s no indication of Dumbledore being gay in the actual books.

Kyle Getz 31:41
yeah. You’re you’re speaking to, like, I was doing the same, like almost philosophical brainstorming of what does it mean and you’re right that, like, I didn’t realize how it was more narrow than than I had thought in my head, but like, I don’t know if this is what you’re gonna get to. This is not necessarily exactly a segment that I had but like, just a hot dude. Just being hot is not necessarily gay baiting,

Mike Johnson 32:11
right. So it is pink washing. And pink washing is a term it is used to describe a variety of marketing and political strategies aimed at promoting products, countries, people or entities through an appeal to gay friendliness in order to be perceived as progressive, modern and tolerant. The phrase was originally coined in 1992. Okay, so let’s, I’ll go into that in just a second. Okay, so pinkwashing is what I call gay baiting pretty regularly. Right? It’s, it’s the Nick Jonas in a Calvin Klein ad.

Kyle Getz 32:46
I wrote, I wrote down like, what is gay baiting is the general concept of Nick Jonas gaybaiting? I just started listing examples, and I was like, Oh, no, it’s not just one thing

Mike Johnson 32:59
and is it bad I don’t care.

Kyle Getz 33:02
Like Yeah, there’s the Calvin Klein ad. There’s the like, super sexy thing where he works out in Scream Queens like he, yeah, he is like, and what I realized is I don’t think he is but

Mike Johnson 33:16
well, and it also sort of implies that it’s corporate. Right, like i think i think it’s possible for an artist to pink wash some of their material. But this is more, it feels more targeted or nefarious, right? It’s, it’s, I want to sell more underwear, so I’m going to put Nick Jonas on the packaging. That’s not necessarily Nick Jonas. Nick Jonas’s fault, right. It’s It’s It’s CK is doing that.

Kyle Getz 33:55
Calvin Klein. Not Louis.

Mike Johnson 33:58

Kyle Getz 33:58
Um, uh Uh, I don’t think I totally understand the difference between gay baiting and pinkwashing then is pinkwashing purely like corporate stuff to sell shit?

Mike Johnson 34:10
So gay baiting is inside of the art right TV shows like rumors that they’re gonna have a gay character. Like that’s that’s in that zone. pinkwashing is anything but especially advertising. Arguably what we bitch about now in the community when it comes to pride is we’re bitching about pinkwashing we’re saying Bank of America don’t fucking pretend you give a good goddamn about gay people. When the only thing you do is show up with a rainbow float during June.

Kyle Getz 34:43
Yeah, I think about the I don’t know their actual beliefs. But what’s the vodka Absolut who puts the rainbow on their thing on their bottles during pride And it’s like well, do you actually support this or is it just we have rainbow so people are more likely to- It reminds me of actually related to kind of black protests and Black Lives Matter someone saying like someone posted like thank you for your infographic or your you know post about black lives in the matter now please show me a picture of your executive board, which I like that idea of like yeah, it’s very easy to pink wash and not actually have the- this is like it I think it’s important to remember that company’s goals a for profit company’s goal is to maximize long term shareholder value. that is the first day in finance like

Mike Johnson 35:35
I thought I was hard before now I’m really erect.

Kyle Getz 35:39
You love long term corporate, like that is the goal of any for profit company. And you may say, Oh, well you know, Tom’s had a good you know, mission of trying to give away a shoe like, if it is for profit, the goal is make money and any, any other goals are secondary. So

Mike Johnson 36:01
Interestingly enough, and then I’ll end this segment we can move on to pink washing the term pink washing originated from a non gay context. I just assumed that pink, Oh pink, that’s a gay color. That’s why they call it pink washing or it’s the pink triangle.

Kyle Getz 36:15
Was it women?

Mike Johnson 36:18
breast cancer. So the phrases originally coined in 1992 by Breast Cancer Action, which is an organization and they were identifying companies that claimed to support breast cancer while actually profiting from their illness.

Kyle Getz 36:33
Like what?

Mike Johnson 36:34
So breast cancer actually. Yeah, it’s a great question,

Kyle Getz 36:42
Mamogram machine makers?

Mike Johnson 36:46
well, it turned into something larger than that, in that in 2002. They launched the Think before you pink campaign. Because there was this period of time where the pink ribbon became so iconic, that companies were literally doing nothing. But putting a pink ribbon on their packaging

Kyle Getz 37:02
so I can’t I can only think about like abstinence campaigns saying-

Mike Johnson 37:07
Think before you pink? Or the gay version Think Before You stink. but they’re their thing before the pink campaign was to encourage consumers to ask critical questions before buying pink ribbon products and and hold corporations accountable for pinkwashing but then that that maybe because of the color Association it seems likely to me that that’s why it got attached to the similar marketing concept for gay people of looking nominally like you support the movement without actually doing anything but putting out a rainbow logo or whatever.

Kyle Getz 37:49
Yeah, this is actually I’m Wow, I’m thinking like, maybe because it’s Pride Month and I’m thinking a lot about corporate involvement in pride and kind of going back to the roots, I think. I mean, I’ve seen a lot of people posting about going back to the roots of pride and it’s a protest and, you know, how do companies and police fit in and a lot of people say they don’t, but my part of my disillusionment of corporate kind of I was in the past fiscally conservative. And that’s based on the economic theory, that perfect information. That’s part of that economic theory that it’s this assumption in a vacuum that people have perfect information and will make their decisions with all the information. And that’s just not true. And this is one of those things where it

Mike Johnson 38:35
also presumes that people will act in their own best interests.

Kyle Getz 38:39
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Mike Johnson 38:41
Which is not the case.

Kyle Getz 38:43
Hey Trump supporters. And log cabin Republicans. What’s up?

Mike Johnson 38:48
you could have a booth at my place if you want.

Kyle Getz 38:49
Aww. I would. Sorry, okay. No, um, the idea of perfect information like what the reason I thought of that is because like Throwing a pride flag throwing a pink ribbon on things that gives, like the idea that they support that cause. And then people don’t go I don’t go and research the full details. I don’t have perfect information. I have that surface level thing that they’re presenting to me.And in the past, I’m trying to be better at not making that assumption that it’s true. But, you know, a lot of people will assume that’s the case.

Mike Johnson 39:23
Yeah. Yeah, I know. I do. it’s easy. Sometimes just say, oh, Rainbow great and then go there. Or buy that.

Kyle Getz 39:30
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, and there’s there’s also the part where it’s like, having a rainbow vodka is that’s putting a rainbow vodka in a store that people see. So there’s like a little bit good with that. But you know, so it’s a little bit messy, but. Okay.

Mike Johnson 39:49
Sorry, I forgot one last term to throw in here is liberal homophobia. And the idea is that from a capitalism standpoint, liberal homophobia is the reason that we have to be careful in the marketplace in how we market things. And liberal homophobia is the acceptance of homosexuality as long as it remains hidden. The person that says I’m down with gay people, as long as they don’t have to see them kissing.

Kyle Getz 40:20
You can do whatever you want in the privacy of your home kind of implies. Don’t hold hands in public or whatever.

Mike Johnson 40:27
Correct. So

Kyle Getz 40:30
that feels very TERF-y which I know you don’t like that word, but like, it feels like oh, well, I’m a feminist. So that feels very liberal buuuut

Mike Johnson 40:40
Yep, yep, absolutely. And I don’t know I’m on the fence about maybe this is my fiscal conservatism coming through. I’m on the fence about whether that justifies it or not, like Target, changing their logo to be a rainbow and no more in order to like That’s gonna please liberal homophobes, liberal homophobia, right? Because they get to say, oh, rainbow, it’s pride. Yeah, I love gay people, but they don’t have to actually see it or confront it or internalize it or understand it.

Kyle Getz 41:12
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like putting out a statement about Black Lives Matter. That’s very easy to put out your press release or your whatever. And you’re like, yeah, we’re down. And then that’s all you do. Or I mean, the joke is always like, during this month, during Pride Month. Happy Pride, Mike.

Mike Johnson 41:31
Happy Pride Kyle.

Kyle Getz 41:32
I don’t think we well, we said that earlier this month. But um, yeah. I just realized, like, especially during this segment, we both talked a lot about capitalism and corporations. And at first I was like, Oh, these things are just happened to remind me of that. But yeah, that is inherent in the discussion about gay baiting is is making money like what’s coming like what’s what’s happening behind The scenes and a lot of it, the root of it is trying to make money off of it. And that’s we’re trying to get attention or promotion or publicity or whatever. But that’s the kind of behind the scenes what’s happening and why are they doing that? And capitalism kind of relies on how they’re presented.

Mike Johnson 42:16
Yeah, for sure.

Kyle Getz 42:18
I want to talk about kind of going along with what we’re doing, trying to figure out the difference between like, what is just like a hot dude and what is actual gay baiting? I wrote down a list of things that I thought are not gay baiting, and things that I think are gay,

Mike Johnson 42:35
Are we’re gonna fight.

Kyle Getz 42:36

Mike Johnson 42:37

Kyle Getz 42:38
So this is a list of things that I thought were not gaybaiting. Okay. And I tried to include a variety just because I think, you know, different types. I mean, I did write down the general concept of Nick Jonas, which we’ve talked about now.

Mike Johnson 42:51
So yummy.

Kyle Getz 42:51
Okay. I went

Mike Johnson 42:54
What’s he up to these days, though? I haven’t seen him in a while.

Kyle Getz 42:57
The Jonas. Brothers released an album not too long ago. Was it a year ago now?

Mike Johnson 43:06
It’s I it’s amazing that I find him so fucking hot despite his music.

Kyle Getz 43:15
You don’t like theJoBros music?

Mike Johnson 43:17
I liked a couple of songs off of that one album that had Close?

Kyle Getz 43:23
Yeah, with Tove Lo

Mike Johnson 43:25
Yeah, with Tove Lo, which I’m realizing now that was like she was carrying that song.

Kyle Getz 43:31
Do you like Tove Lo? Have I made you like her? Do you?

Mike Johnson 43:34
I do, I do. Yeah, I wouldn’t call myself a super fan and I she’s in that space of like, I always really like her and then I’m like, I asked somebody who is this and then the make judgey eyes me and They say it’s Tove Lo

Kyle Getz 43:46
my that person every time?

Mike Johnson 43:48
Not every time.

Kyle Getz 43:51
90% is not every time. She is bisexual maybe?

Mike Johnson 43:58

Kyle Getz 43:59
She’s some kind of queer for sure. I love her so much. She’s so good. Um, okay, so the first one I put on the list of not gay baiting is I’ve been listening to the Selena Gomez album Rare, which is number one on the Billboard charts when it came out

Mike Johnson 44:15
probably medium rare by now.

Kyle Getz 44:21
You’re kind of funny this episode. you should do this on every episode. Are you trying this time? Okay, so she has a lot of their songs. gays like her in general, but she does a song fun where she talks about like, I’m not that into you, but you look like fun like that kind of and that feels very gay to me. Like listening to that song. It’s beyond just, hey, this is a Britney Spears album or a Kesha album that’s already kind of Madonna album. That’s kind of gay already. It feels very like. I want to have sexual fun with you. wow I made that I made hooking up sound the least exciting as possible. I’d like to have sexual

Mike Johnson 45:02
I would like to have intercourse with you sir

Kyle Getz 45:04
I would like to enjoy sexual relations with your penis. Even that would get me off right now. Anything. If you’ve been waiting to shoot your shot.

Mike Johnson 45:16
Oh god right in your eye.

Kyle Getz 45:19
If I was so lucky, the sweetest thing in porn, when a guy gets a facial, and then the the guy that is giving the facial like wipes the cum out of his eye, it’s like that’s so romantic. It’s just so sweet. Okay, Selina Gomez.

Kyle Getz 45:40
Anyway, that song feels so specific and targeted to gay people or a gay experience. But it’s a song about hooking up. It is not. She doesn’t talk about being gay. She’s not even hinting at being gay. It’s just relatable to gay people. So this is where I’m trying to like, figure out the line of it so that I don’t think is gay baiting. Great. Um, when Britney and Madonna kissed Do you remember this their performance? Yeah, like in the 90s or whatever it is.

Mike Johnson 46:09
I don’t think it was the 90s I think it was 2000

Kyle Getz 46:11
Oh, probably I don’t think Britney Spears was a thing until later.

Mike Johnson 46:16
That was in that time when they were MTV in particular was pushing hard The idea that Madonna was passing the torch to Britney. She was gonna be the next Madonna because Madonna ordained it so

Kyle Getz 46:27
in that moment, they talked about like her, okay, but the thing that they didn’t show

Mike Johnson 46:32
I was straight then and I was paying attention.

Kyle Getz 46:36
Because it’s two chicks and that was hot. And what people don’t know or don’t realize is that Madonna actually kissed Christina Aguilera. But they cut away after the Brittney/Madonna kiss to Justin Timberlake to get his reaction. So people actually don’t realize there was there were two lesbian kisses

Mike Johnson 46:59

Kyle Getz 47:00
I guess it wasn’t lesbian if they’re not lesbians, but anyway, So I’m saying that’s I don’t think that’s gay bate. I think that is you gratuitous is what you called it you know i think that could be Shock Value trying to get media riled up whatever but I don’t think that’s gaybaiting.

Mike Johnson 47:19

Kyle Getz 47:20
Do you disagree?

Mike Johnson 47:22
we’re approaching the line I don’t know where that line is and the thing I don’t understand I guess is if not gay baiting, then why? right like if…

Kyle Getz 47:42
let me go to the next example

Mike Johnson 47:43
K great.

Kyle Getz 47:44
Um, this i thought was like the epitome like the benchmark for gay porn like gay for pay. To me that is not gay baiting. And before I would have said maybe or Yes, I don’t think it’s gay baiting because They are in a gay porn. And they know that porn is for you to look at and jerk off to and some of them are even out about I am not gay and I’m doing this and we’re like, cool. I’m gonna jerk off to you anyway like, to me that is, there is no mal intent. There is no like, they are just I’m a hot dude and we want to see it. Like there’s no lie or deceit or even if they’re pretending to be gay, they’re not they never said I’m definitely gay. everybody watching me be gay and do gay stuff on this porn later. Like, to me that’s a good example of something people think is gay baiting. I don’t think it is.

Mike Johnson 48:39
Interesting. Okay. I think I disagree with that.

Kyle Getz 48:42
Okay, tell me, talk to me.

Mike Johnson 48:45
From that person’s perspective, they are thinking there are gays in the world I want their money. I’m gonna expose myself and do gay shit so that they give me that money. But that feels problematic.

Kyle Getz 49:06
Oh, probably I didn’t expect you to say problematic. Tell me more.

Mike Johnson 49:10
the ethics of that seem very questionable to me. Like,

Kyle Getz 49:14

Mike Johnson 49:15
Because they’re not gay.

Kyle Getz 49:16
But what does it matter? They’re like, they’re they’re not. It’s almost like acting like you’re not actually the character like just because you’re not actually a law and order. SVU detective doesn’t mean Mariska Hargitay like needs to, you know, like,

Mike Johnson 49:31
That’s true, but we need queer actors to play queer roles, Kyle.

Kyle Getz 49:34
Sure. We never extended that to gay porn. Now that I Think about it. I don’t I just don’t think it is because there’s no intent to deceive. And we don’t care like that’s the like. Also, “oh, stepbrother. What Why are you touching my dick?” Like we don’t think that’s real. We don’t think that like one of them is British. Like you’re not stepbrothers, I don’t believe you. You know, like, but we go along with it.

Mike Johnson 50:08
Yeah. Only one of you is circumcised. What parents do that?

Kyle Getz 50:11
yeah. They like the first time. They’re like oooops. Maybe not. Or they were like, let’s just see. Let’s see what happens.

Mike Johnson 50:18
I know this is on your list or not. But how about the opposite? What about? I’ve seen multiple porins where clearly gay actors and I know that they’re gay because I follow them on social media and talk about their boyfriend all the time Playing straight in a porn. Is that Gaybaiting

Kyle Getz 50:32
Do you watch him like, do it in her, in her?

Mike Johnson 50:35
no, no, no. A gay actor pretending to be straight in a gay porn.

Kyle Getz 50:41
I’m so straight. I’ve never done anything before. Like that. To me. That’s the same thing. It’s

Mike Johnson 50:45
not gay baiting?

Kyle Getz 50:46

Mike Johnson 50:47
Okay. Just asking let’s.

Kyle Getz 50:50
I don’t Yeah, I was like, very offended by that. Back off from my gay porn. Okay, so maybe the Flipside will also help in this discussion what I think

Mike Johnson 51:03
Yeah, let’s flip flop.

Kyle Getz 51:03
Let’s- God dammit. Um, first one Finn and po in Star Wars.

Mike Johnson 51:12
Yes. Yes, yes. Yes. So I think that’s the ex post facto kind of gaybaiting. Right like there was nothing explicitly gay about those characters in that movie. The actors said we played it gay which I actually kind of find offensive now watching the movie because like if you if you were trying you failed and and then but to throw that out there to try to get gay people to watch this mega blockbuster movie is horseshit.

Kyle Getz 51:42
yes. 100% like Yeah, and I think that’s like so that’s even on the extreme side to me, having a actual gay character but having a two dimensional gay character also feels like gay baiting to me. Having a there are some examples I feel like I disagreed with like, just because you have a gay character in a show does not make it gay baiting. And just

Mike Johnson 52:03
what about tokenization?

Kyle Getz 52:05
And that’s what I mean, I think in the same vein of like two dimensional characters like

Mike Johnson 52:11
I think it’s automatically gay baiting.

Kyle Getz 52:14
Having a gay character

Mike Johnson 52:15
having a two dimensional gay character

Kyle Getz 52:17
Oh, yes,

Mike Johnson 52:18
yes. If you just throw in Hey, this is Dave he’s gay and that’s it.

Kyle Getz 52:23
Yep he’s there to say oh girl and that’s it. Yeah, yeah. I think some things that I read said that like just making a character gay for no reason and not having- like that’s something I like and I don’t think that’s gay baiting I want more characters that just happened to be gay and that doesn’t have anything to do with their storyline.

Mike Johnson 52:47

Kyle Getz 52:48
like why why does the default need to be you’re straight until proven gay? Like, I want characters to be randomly gay and not have a coming out storyline and not have I fought with my dad storyline and not have an HIV storyline like they’re just a gay spy.

Mike Johnson 53:04
Okay? I think that they need to do something other than just wear the label gay though.

Kyle Getz 53:12
why why do you think that. this is weird because I really like and appreciate and want that representation and that’s just interesting it’s so different from you

Mike Johnson 53:27
maybe because it just feels like halfway or something like like straight people literally have everything, every relationship every romance every onscreen kiss, blah, blah blah and there are exceptions I’m saying every into like hyperbolic sense and, like if you’re just going to take a flat character and make them gay or a complex character and make them gay, but not see their gayness why not take that extra step and make their sexual actually part of the character and not just a moniker.

Kyle Getz 54:04
But see if you’re saying like straight people have everything, like straight people also have straight characters that don’t go around doing straight things, or just straight because they’re straight again, because that’s the default. So why do they get? Why do they get the default? Why can’t some of them be gay?

Mike Johnson 54:22
That’s true. I buy that.

Kyle Getz 54:24
Did I convince you

Mike Johnson 54:25
Yeah sure

Kyle Getz 54:27
it’s the most we’re gonna get out of you, which I’m very happy about. Okay, these are two more definitive examples I saw written about and I think are good. Kind of,

Mike Johnson 54:37
please say James Franco. Please say James Franco. Okay, go ahead.

Kyle Getz 54:41
Man. I don’t care what he does. He can gay bate me so hard.

Mike Johnson 54:44
Okay. I want his brother.,

Kyle Getz 54:47
Dave Franco? Have you seen the video? Go fuck yourself?

Mike Johnson 54:51

Kyle Getz 54:51
Oh my god, right. I like then backed up and then backed up. It worked for me. Okay, that one is the the hundred. Have you heard of that show on The CW? I have never heard

Mike Johnson 55:06
about that. Um, the Greek warriors right?

Kyle Getz 55:09
Yep. Yep. It’s like after a third survived No, it’s CW show I don’t really know it’s about a so Lexa was a lesbian character they touted themselves as being a very LGBT inclusive you know progressive TV show particularly because of her they talked about the show runners and everyone posted about talked about her being in the finale of this one season. turns out she was not in the finale she got killed off Oh, go back in time this is spoilers.

Mike Johnson 55:45

Kyle Getz 55:47
Whoops. Um, she was killed off

Mike Johnson 55:49
If somebody having CW show the hundred ruined for them if that’s gonna ruin their day. I don’t care.

Kyle Getz 56:01
Your your problems are- you’re lucky to- okay um

Mike Johnson 56:06
you’re an unsalvageable human

Kyle Getz 56:10
burn um, she was killed off mid season she was killed right- And it gets worse like that alone would have been like what they knew like the time that they were talking about on social media and promoting that she was in the finale they knew she wasn’t there they already filmed thing where she was killed off that alone would have been a good example much less she was killed right after having sex with a woman so like there’s that kill your gays idea or the like lesbians don’t survive it like particularly after they use the phrase consummate, which sounds felt gross, but it’s not

Mike Johnson 56:46
Isn’t that like a kind of soup.

Kyle Getz 56:49
I love it when it’s chunky. And it wasn’t even her standing up for someone or it wasn’t part of the storyline. Like there was just a random bullet that caught her and she got it so it was like didn’t even

Mike Johnson 57:04
weird why do that?

Kyle Getz 57:07
Why do that? Yeah um so that was a weird one that then like fans didn’t like and and to me that shows the intent behind it is really important because the intent behind like they were pushing and promoting their LGBT friendliness and either lied I forget if it was lied or just misconstrued or whatever the the ending to get people to stick around and watch and that feels like what gay baiting you know perfect example of that.

Mike Johnson 57:36

Kyle Getz 57:37
Another example is again in a show I’ve never watched Rizzoli and Isles you’ve seen-

Mike Johnson 57:42

Kyle Getz 57:42
Have you heard of it?

Mike Johnson 57:43

Kyle Getz 57:43
Oh, I’ve at least heard of it

Mike Johnson 57:45
on what network I don’t even

Kyle Getz 57:47
you know, channel four. I don’t know. I don’t know. There was a BuzzFeed article by Sarah Carlin that said it’s the gayest non gay show on television. Which James barr you should sue them for non gay um but it was like this must watch lesbian show with no actual lesbians because the two had this weird kind of subtext of lesbianism that that never actually appeared on screen and what kind of put the nail in the vagina is on TV Guide whoever plays Rizzoli, I don’t know either them said that, quote, sometimes we’ll do a take for that demo. I’ll brush by her (her co-stars) I’ll brush by her blouse or maybe linger for a moment, as long as we’re not being accused of being homophobic, which is not in any way true and completely infuriating, I’m okay with it. So the idea of intentionally This is almost the Foe and Pin. Nope. Finn and Poe. But like a more extreme of like, I’m intentionally doing things on the screen to try to make us look more lesbian when we’re not.

Mike Johnson 59:02

Kyle Getz 59:04
That, to me is a classic example of gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 59:06
Mm hmm. Okay. I’ll buy that.

Kyle Getz 59:10
Those are my examples.

Mike Johnson 59:11
I think they’re good ones.

Kyle Getz 59:12
Thank you. I look them up on the internet.

Mike Johnson 59:15
We covered a lot of ground that I was sort of maybe going to talk about. that’s okay. So I’ll just boil this down. We have to talk about I Kissed A Girl. Gay baiting or no?

Kyle Getz 59:28

Mike Johnson 59:29

Kyle Getz 59:29
in fact on my list of no’s I realized I was talking a lot and still did but that was on my list of no’s.

Mike Johnson 59:37
Okay. Defend your answer.

Kyle Getz 59:40

Mike Johnson 59:42
Because here the prosecution will go first. She’s not bi, she wrote this song just to be salacious. She is using queer sexuality To sell records, the prosecution rest.

Kyle Getz 1:00:04
The prosecution’s so tired, it rests.

Mike Johnson 1:00:07
I’m talking about Katy Perry song I kissed a girl too. I don’t know if we said that at all.

Kyle Getz 1:00:16
Um, Katherine Perry. I worry that I’m- going to say this, There is the kind of performative aspect of female sexuality that has been studied and confirmed of, it is a thing that women do

Mike Johnson 1:00:38
greater fluidity.

Kyle Getz 1:00:40
Sure, yep. And actually, the data I’m not going to go into all this. It’s actually a thing that happens more often in men than we kind of realize but there is like an aspect of female sexuality that can include things like making out with someone, even if you’re not bi, so partly, it’s like speaks to that. concept that I hope my boyfriend don’t mind it like, you know if you make out with another girl, but you’re in a relationship was that cheating? Or was it fun and fine like? So I think she I think that song spoke to that concept which at the time was probably newer or less discussed. Also, I don’t think this is for me the similar thing of like actors like, I think you can be a character in your songs. I think you, you don’t have to be. You don’t have to actually represent what your song is. Your song can be about a character that you’re playing, and a situation that’s not real and so she doesn’t have to be by to sing about having a boyfriend and kissing a girl.

Mike Johnson 1:01:49
That’s interesting.

Kyle Getz 1:01:50
The defense takes a nap.

Mike Johnson 1:01:52
So when asked about her own sexuality, Perry told Santa Barbara magazine quote, I like to kiss boys, but there is no doubt in my mind. If Angelina Jolie or gizelle boonton came a callin, who wouldn’t pick her up? Perry told the New gay another publication that she had never actually kissed a girl and is heterosexual. She is quoted as saying quote, yeah, it’s fantasy. It’s a song about curiosity. However, in a separate interview in 2010, Perry stated to a female interviewer that she has kissed several girls. Perry later admitted to Vanity Fair in early of may 2011. that the reason she did not discuss it honestly at first was because a couple of sleazy male journalists made her uncomfortable quote, so I said no, I hadn’t experienced it even though I had because I didn’t like where the guys were taking the interviews.

Kyle Getz 1:02:42

Mike Johnson 1:02:42
Have I talked very much about how much I fucking hate Katy Perry.

Kyle Getz 1:02:46
I don’t think so. now is your- The floor is yours

Mike Johnson 1:02:54
for the same reason that I hate Taylor Swift. Like I just I’m not buying any of It. I think it’s just cold, calculated, packaged shittiness and it really, I don’t know, I’m not I’m not buying it.

Kyle Getz 1:03:14
I was gonna say something that was gonna be real smart.

Mike Johnson 1:03:16
In February of 2018, online glamour article, Perry express the following about the song, quote, we’ve really changed conversationally in the past 10 years, we’ve come a long way. bisexuality wasn’t as talked about back then. or any type of fluidity. If I had to write that song again, I probably would make an edit on it. Lyrically, it has a couple of stereotypes in it, your mind changes so much in 10 years and you grow so much what’s true for you can evolve.

Kyle Getz 1:03:45
Okay, what I just realized that I’m very intelligent for thinking of is that part of this, Part of the difficulty in this is a lot of it comes down to intent, which you can’t always see it. some of the examples I gave where like, we specifically lied about a thing, like so clearly in the intent was to deceive. So I think that I guess a girl could go one of two ways, just like bisexuals. It could like it could be an exploration of curiosity and female sexuality. And if that was an authentic, did she really write that song? That’s this is part of the packaging that I don’t believe she writes her own songs, but whatever.

Mike Johnson 1:04:26
This is one of those situations where there’s four songwriters and two producers on the credits. So No, she didn’t.

Kyle Getz 1:04:33
Okay. Yeah. But if whoever wrote the song is actually exploring that concept that’s very different than someone who intentionally specifically writes a song to pander to gay audiences to sell records. And, and it’s hard to know. And it and maybe it’s actually a little bit of both. So does that make it? Yeah, so maybe I like in that middle ground where I don’t know for sure I’m defaulting to No, it’s not until proven gay baiting.

Mike Johnson 1:05:01

Kyle Getz 1:05:02
Which may not be. I guess I like have a high like high bar for what is considered gay baiting? Yeah.

Mike Johnson 1:05:09
Okay. Oh, I’ll buy that. Do you have more?

Kyle Getz 1:05:13
Okay, well since I mentioned it I’ll just go ahead and throw this out there. We don’t have to talk about it but there is a study by Derek do Nope. Dr. Eric who I’m not gonna go there Derrick Anderson, who usually research sports and masculinity. Who asked. Someone asked about if he knew about gay chicken. Where like dudes get closer and closer and closer to kissing and then like whoever

Mike Johnson 1:05:39
Oh, I thought gay chicken was we put a hand on their knee and then you move up towards their dick

Kyle Getz 1:05:44
That’s a thing but mostly I’ve seen it in terms of making out you lean your heads closer and closer together until like

Mike Johnson 1:05:53
mine involves heads too.

Kyle Getz 1:05:56
There’s something like in the UK they had to stop playing it because everyone would just Kiss like there was no like, anyway, but he did a study of 145 students in it 89% said they were happy to kiss a man on the lips in friendship. And okay, and 40% said they had engaged in sustained kissing for either shock value or for a laugh.

Mike Johnson 1:06:21
God Bless America

Kyle Getz 1:06:23
and God bless straight dudes kissing. Okay, that’s the last thing I wanted to put it out there.

Mike Johnson 1:06:31
Did we do it?

Kyle Getz 1:06:32
Yeah, yeah hope tipsy mcstumbles. Let us know if we did it

Mike Johnson 1:06:36
Yeah you paid for this shit

Kyle Getz 1:06:36

Mike Johnson 1:06:39
Make out with me. Should we take a break?

Kyle Getz 1:06:42
Let’s take a break.

Mike Johnson 1:06:43
Let’s take a break. And Arthur.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:45
BREAK MUSIC: “This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!”

Mike Johnson 1:06:53
Are we back?

Kyle Getz 1:06:54
We’re back.

Mike Johnson 1:06:54
]We’re back.

Kyle Getz 1:06:56
You idid that so coyly, I didn’t see it coming. We’re gonna do our gayest and straightest

Mike Johnson 1:07:02
we’re gonna do our gayest and straightest, but first Our website is

Kyle Getz 1:07:06
our social media which are on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter

Mike Johnson 1:07:10
your mom

Kyle Getz 1:07:11
we’re on your mom. Watch out! what is it something in the pink?

Mike Johnson 1:07:16
Two in the pink, one in the stink?

Kyle Getz 1:07:16
No, What did we just say before avoid the pink? Oh yeah.

Mike Johnson 1:07:22
Oh yeah, think before you pink

Kyle Getz 1:07:25
okay @gayishpodcast and we have like a Facebook group which is cool and we have a discord which is cool. So check those out too

Mike Johnson 1:07:35
our hotline you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails is 5855GAYISH that’s 5855429474 standard rates apply

Kyle Getz 1:07:43
in our emails

Mike Johnson 1:07:46
our physical addresses p o box 19882. Seattle, Washington 98109. Also, while you’re talking about discord, Mm hmm. You You can get access via our discord or our Facebook group. But we actually have so many gaymers with a Y that we now have a dedicated Minecraft.

Kyle Getz 1:08:11
With a why?

Mike Johnson 1:08:12
Yeah, haha. bitch. we have we have a dedicated minecraft server and a dedicated terrarium server

Kyle Getz 1:08:19
wow I didn’t I knew about World of Warcraft I didn’t know those other things

Mike Johnson 1:08:22
yeah. And and then we play World of Warcraft as a guild on Wednesday nights and it made me realize like, in case people need that extra incentive because I’m awesome you should know you can voice chat with me on discord because we play like we talk we bullshit while we’re playing.

Kyle Getz 1:08:39
Can are there enough spots in your guild that people anyone can, I don’t know how it works

Mike Johnson 1:08:46
well, we’re gonna have to fix that.

Kyle Getz 1:08:47
Oh, yeah, we at some point. I’m gonna play we’re gonna like video my first world Warcraft

Mike Johnson 1:08:54
you’re gonna love it

Kyle Getz 1:08:54
but I don’t know. I remember when I was in like high school. I played Halo for the first And I just fell off whatever plane or weird starship we were on. And then I was like, that’s it. anyway gayest and straightest?

Mike Johnson 1:09:09
Oh, no. Yeah, I do have a couple of other things. The four R’s review, rubscribe and recommend.

Kyle Getz 1:09:15
Oh, yeah, you told me right before this we got a shitty review

Mike Johnson 1:09:18
we got a shitty review, So we need at least three more than can cancel it out.

Kyle Getz 1:09:23
Are we still at a 4.5?

Mike Johnson 1:09:25
I don’t

Kyle Getz 1:09:25
don’t it doesn’t.

Mike Johnson 1:09:27
And the last thing for scheduling so in just a couple of days after this airs, we are doing a live stream on Saturday June 27 at 6pm pacific time. You can catch that on Facebook Live if you want the video feed via our Facebook page or you can get the audio on because this weekend is pride 48 live streaming weekend. Gayish as well as many, many I think 29 shows will be scheduled that whole weekend. So if you want to hear other queer podcasters and other great shows, this is the weekend to do it again.

Kyle Getz 1:10:06
Yep. Yeah, yeah, we’ve done this. This will be the third year that we’ve done this so yeah, it’s it’s really cool to have like, just back to back so many, you know, queer podcasts and they have their own discussion group that everyone logs in and talks about things and yeah, so check it out

Mike Johnson 1:10:23
which is also on Discord. They’ve moved to discord for their chat functions. So discord is the place to be.

Kyle Getz 1:10:29
Wow, yeah. Cool.

Mike Johnson 1:10:31
Let’s do a gay straight.

Kyle Getz 1:10:32
Okay, cool.

Mike Johnson 1:10:33
I went first last time.

Kyle Getz 1:10:34
Oh, me. Okay. So my straightest is my shopping list. I think my my my food shopping list grocery list. I’m just gonna read you the first one. Sour cream, steak, ham, pizza, spaghetti, butter. Those are the top things on List. That just, to me all those things do not feel like like so many carbs so many meat like that just

Mike Johnson 1:11:10
I’m proud of you

Kyle Getz 1:11:10
thank you

Mike Johnson 1:11:11
the fact that you have a shopping list at all

Kyle Getz 1:11:12
I know right it’s not like frozen pizza, another frozen pizza. my Gayish I’m so excited about this one. like yesterday I saw dude like getting buzzed into my building you know called in on the call box

Mike Johnson 1:11:31
Did you want to buzz him?

Kyle Getz 1:11:34
Eh. but I just in my mind I was like, it was like 2am which is usually when I take my dog for is like last outing of the night. I was like, you’re here for a hookup and but I didn’t know so like, you know, he got buzzed in and I walked in like I waited then I went in behind him. We both were on the elevator together and as like, and then I kind of like I think I was like sly about it like saw on his phone, grinder like You could tell he was not sure which floor to push.

Mike Johnson 1:12:03
Yeah, yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:12:03
I could. I ended up seeing him being a grinder and I just wanted to be like, have fun. Like, I hope you know, I just wanted to be like, I support you like, I get it and go do it. But like, obviously I didn’t because that’s weird, but just the fact that I knew that this was a grinder hookup.

Mike Johnson 1:12:21
That’s all of the pieces are coming together. Very clear what’s happening. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Getz 1:12:28
Just recently on that Patreon call Someone’s Grindr notification went off

Mike Johnson 1:12:33
yeah. Yeah,

Kyle Getz 1:12:34
I love that so much.

Mike Johnson 1:12:35
Apparently, that turned into an actual date. Dating,

Kyle Getz 1:12:39
like dating?

Mike Johnson 1:12:40

Kyle Getz 1:12:41
Wow, good work. If you’re a Patreon member, you’re guaranteed to get a date. Cool.

Mike Johnson 1:12:47
the straightest thing about me this week is just talking to my fraternity brothers. I had a conference call this week to meet a bunch of new staff that just started and I like because I’m a district governor. So I have like

Kyle Getz 1:12:58

Mike Johnson 1:13:00
Yeah. And so there’s there’s new guys that are coming on staff or that are just starting to work in my district and we had a conference call to talk and I just I heard it. I heard myself being just so straight. And

Kyle Getz 1:13:13
do you have an example of how you talked?

Mike Johnson 1:13:15
Oh, God. No, No, I can’t I don’t think I can. Just happens accidentally, you know, accidentally, accidentally happens accidentally. But then the gayest thing about me this week is talking to my fraternity brothers. I we have a gay fraternity brother group on Facebook. It’s like 1000 of us and

Kyle Getz 1:13:40
hey sig eps

Mike Johnson 1:13:41
Yep, SigEps. every Friday during quarantine. We’ve had a happy hour and it’s just the cattiest, bitchiest. Gayest stuff like I heard one of our one of our brothers that comes to the the happy hour was telling us about How he and this dudeWe’re trying to set some kind of record and he got railed 28 times in four days.

Kyle Getz 1:14:06

Mike Johnson 1:14:07
And then we like there was a round of applause

Kyle Getz 1:14:11
Good him.

Mike Johnson 1:14:12
Yeah, yeah. Anyway,

Kyle Getz 1:14:14
I haven’t railed myself 28 times.

Mike Johnson 1:14:18
True story.

Kyle Getz 1:14:20
do you have the listeners

Mike Johnson 1:14:21
I do. This week’s listeners case the straightest is from a Eurk from Germany. He said if I can’t say that it’s Chris from Germany. His gayest is just painting my nails black with holographic glitter on top. His straightest is my husband and I bought the same sweater. We’re becoming an old straight couple.

Kyle Getz 1:14:44
Like the, the accidental twinning of straight couples.

Mike Johnson 1:14:48
Yeah. And there’s something about like, matching sweater shopping that just says- I’m not gonna say that. I was gonna say give me your gay card but we don’t say that.

Kyle Getz 1:14:59
No, we don’t say that.

Mike Johnson 1:15:01
So that’s it. Thank you to tipsy MCstumbles for being hot and suggesting this episode.

Kyle Getz 1:15:07
Thank you to the general concept of Nick Jonas.

Mike Johnson 1:15:10
Yes, he’s third on my list.

Kyle Getz 1:15:12
Oh, shut up. I got there.

Mike Johnson 1:15:14
And and and thank you to Arthur, whoever he is.

Kyle Getz 1:15:19
Getting very familiar with him.

Mike Johnson 1:15:21
So that’s it. This has been Gayish. I’m Mike Johnson.

Kyle Getz 1:15:23
I’m Kyle Getz until next week. Be butch be fabulous. Be you.

Mike Johnson 1:15:27
See you next week.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:28

Kyle Getz 1:15:44
Are we gay baiting?

Mike Johnson 1:15:46

Kyle Getz 1:15:46
I dunno, we’re gay.

Mike Johnson 1:15:48
Oh, and baiting a lot.