Turns out, whiskey isn’t actually that straight. We talk about masculinity, gayta, Fireball, why gogo boys are thanks to whiskey, and homophobia in the whisky industry, especially within Bulleit.
In this episode: News- 4:10 || Main Topic (Whiskey)- 18:45 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:07:32
On the weekly bonus Patreon segment, Mike makes Kyle do a whiskey taste test while Kyle tries to convince him that whiskey and BDSM are connected. Get bonus audio, video, and other great benefits by joining our Patreon at www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
MIKE JOHNSON
Before we start, this episode of Gayish features discussion, and even jokes, about alcohol and drinking culture. If that is something you prefer not to hear, or if there’s any possibility that will be a trigger for you in any way, we suggest you please skip this week’s show. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcohol, there are addiction and recovery resources listed on our website at gayishpodcast.com/help. And now, enjoy Gayish.
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish!
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that will, from now on, refer to virgins as antonym-phos.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah. Yeah. I’m here for that.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] A laugh and then a thought is what I like to get from you. That’s just like the best intros, for me.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality, and today…
KYLE GETZ
Today we’re going to talk about and consume-
MIKE JOHNSON
[singing] I am the champion, my friend. [speaking] I keep winning. It’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, fuck me, you’re right! Okay, we’re gonna talk about whiskey, which was Mike’s- I thought- I was like, “Wait, that band’s name isn’t ‘Whiskey’ is it?” Okay. Yes, um-
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] It’s the Gap Bridger poll. We have a monthly Gap Bridger poll and all of our folks at the $50 level get three choices that Kyle and I select, and then they get to vote on which one becomes an episode. It was “Whiskey”, which was mine; “Emperors”, which was mine and people did not like-
KYLE GETZ
Ugh, thank God. Thank- I would- [Mike laughs] Okay, I know you won with whiskey. Thank you all for not voting “Emperors” number one. That was, if you couldn’t tell, a Mike choice. I did “Cake”. “Cake” got- “Whiskey” still won in the tiebreaker poll, but “Cake” got second in the tiebreaker poll so we’re gonna do cake for the bonus Patreon episode this month.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah we are.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
But first…
KYLE GETZ
But first, I have a correction.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
And I’m really angry to everyone.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Me, too?
KYLE GETZ
Uhhh, yes, and disappointed.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Can we just- Like, can you be mad at Derek instead?
KYLE GETZ
Derek… [Mike laughs] we need to have a talk. It’s not working. Selena Gomez.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, god dammit. Fuck. Jesus, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Listen.
MIKE JOHNSON
What?
KYLE GETZ
Listen to me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now we- Can we just blame Murph?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, probably. [Mike chuckles] Selena Gomez is not the number one most followed woman on- or, number one most followed person, on Instagram. I said that a bunch and no one corrected me that she wasn’t. She is the third most followed person. She is the fourth most followed account. She is the number one most followed woman. So that’s a- Like, every- Like, not only did I say it, but I think Murph was like- Oh, no, Marty was like, “Is that a fact?” and I was like “Yes.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Because I saw a headline that I misread.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. What possessed you to go, like, wrong yourself [laughing] and find out the truth?
KYLE GETZ
Because of how- Like, I was listening back, and I said it so definitively, and I, knowing that I’m still me, was like- listening to that was like “I’m not that sure.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“I’m not 100% sure, but I sounded 100% sure.” Anyway, no one sent that in, no one corrected me, and I’m angry at y’all.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Well, you know, hey.
KYLE GETZ
Hey. Whatcha gonna do?
KYLE GETZ
Whatcha gonna do when they come for you? Bad boys.
KYLE GETZ
Whatcha gonna do when they cum in you? [Mike laughs] Bad boys.
MIKE JOHNSON
Before we go to the news, this is just everyone’s reminder, we will be at the Tree Fort Music Festival in Boise, Idaho on Friday, March the 24th at 6pm Mountain Time, and it is free and open to the public. You do not need a festival pass to attend. Please come see us in the great state of Idaho. Youdaho, we all da ho.
KYLE GETZ
And “Meatball and Big Dipper” [TN: “Sloppy Seconds with Big Dipper and Meatball”] are the podcast that’s on before us.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, they’re right before us at 5pm.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep. So, you know, come and hang out for both.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. Mhm. It’s gonna be magical.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And now, here’s the news.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
News the first: Charles Sutherland, of Takoma Park, Maryland, was arrested last June and charged with malicious destruction of property and multiple hate crimes in connection with vandalism at two public libraries in Maryland’s Prince George’s County. So, he spray painted the word “groomer” on the entrances of their libraries. And, in case you’re, like, I don’t know, hiding under a rock or something, “groomer” is what the right-wing is using as their dog whistle for anti-LGBT stuff, right? Like, normalization of any sort of sexual or gender minority status is, like, we’re “grooming” just for wanting fuckin’ rights.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Which is not new. They’ve been doing this forever, they just found a new word. And, meanwhile, I only see these new stories that are like “This priest is arrested for possessing child pornography” and “This…” you know, “This straight dude is arrested for all of this-” Like, the real groomers are- They don’t give a shit about kids, because the actual pedophiles out there are getting arrested and no one is like “Hey, look, it’s white men!”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
“Let’s target them!”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
No, it’s just about being anti-gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Yep, yep. Well, he had been a librarian at Northview Elementary School in Bowie, Maryland, and when he decided to go and spray paint “groomer” on these libraries in his area he was, of course, placed on administrative leave, and as part of that he confessed, said “Yes, I did it,” and “Yes, I have no remorse. I believe that that’s what’s happening because we are grooming children for sexual abuse-” or, “LGBT people” specifically, “are grooming children for sexual abuse.” Anyways, as part of that process he agreed to allow them to search his home. In his home, officers discovered that he had a child-sized doll, several smaller dolls, diapers at his home even though he has no children, nieces, or nephews, and he told them as part of his deposition that he had child porn on his computer, which they found, and he will now face, among other things, misdemeanor charges of possessing child porn.
KYLE GETZ
I could have just shut the fuck up [Mike laughs] and let this story play out! I don’t know why I didn’t trust the story to just happen that way.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Fuck, man.
MIKE JOHNSON
And he is white, you’re right. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. No one is calling for, like, the reversal of rights for white dudes. Like, that should be what’s happening, given who’s actually committing stuff. That’s- I mean, it’s just- It’s not surprising anymore. It’s shitty that that happens and that we get treated like this, and those stories don’t stick and we still get the backlash. You’re just anti-queer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And there’s- Ugh. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Fuckin’ A.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, straight people, are you okay? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Goddamn, right?
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause they’re- you’re clearly not.
KYLE GETZ
No. I mean, yeah, the answer is no. Y’all need to get your shit together.
MIKE JOHNSON
Get it together, straight people. Well, news the second…
KYLE GETZ
Okay. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Have you been following this thing with the lieutenant governor of Tennessee?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
A little bit?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. I’ve seen some of the responses he has made. I’ll let you actually tell people what it is though.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, so the lieutenant governor of the state of Tennessee… which, for our international folks, we have 50 states, every state has a governor, and most of them also have a lieutenant governor that’s like the second in command of the state or whatever. But uh, Tennessee is not a place that’s been kind to LGBT people. This dude, Lieutenant Governor McNally, he used to be in the legislature of Tennessee and was responsible for, among other things, their ban against gay marriage, and they’re very much embroiled in anti-trans bills right now, trying to prevent trans care for minors, trying to- bathroom bills, trying to make trans sports bills. All of this stuff is happening in Tennessee, like it is in many parts of the country. But he’s now speaking out, after he found himself embroiled in a scandal when it was revealed that he frequently liked and commented on Instagram photos of a barely dressed young gay man. He has actively supported the state’s new law banning drag queens from public performances and stripping young people of access to gender affirming medical care, and yet put many, many fire and heart emojis on Franklyn Superstar, who is a very queer young man.
KYLE GETZ
This is just a lil twink.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just a lil twink.
KYLE GETZ
Lil mostly naked twink.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. In one of the posts here, McClure, who is the twink. The twink in-
KYLE GETZ
The twink in question?
MIKE JOHNSON
The twink in question, Franklin McClure, there’s a close up of his, quote, “buttocks covered in underwear.” Uh, that’s one of the ones that he put – that Lieutenant Governor McNally put – several fire and heart emojis in the comments, and, in a follow up comment on the same post, Lieutenant Governor McNally wrote, quote, “Finn, you can turn a rainy day into rainbows and sunshine.”
KYLE GETZ
Did he think these are like private messages? Like- He’s really playing into this, like, kind of person that is out of touch and doesn’t know how to use social media. Like, what do you- what did you think was happening?
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Yeah, exactly. Well, so, I mean, he is 79 years old and maybe doesn’t know how it works… potentially? I don’t know. That’s ageist of me, but I kind of-
KYLE GETZ
It’s- Well, that’s the problem that he’s playing into. Like, there are so many people that know how Instagram works, and they’re of all ages, including people that are older ages. Like- Yeah. I don’t know. He’s kinda- Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, so-
KYLE GETZ
He’s playing into the stereotype. Hey, that’s what our show is about.
MIKE JOHNSON
So his- When asked “Why did you do that?” his response was, quote, “I, you know, try to encourage people with posts and try to, you know, help them if I can.” “[My intentions were] basically trying to encourage him.”
KYLE GETZ
Man, I encourage your – what was it? – briefen-clad buttock and dick. [both laugh] Like, I encourage that too. You know what? We’re on the same side in that. I encourage that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Well, in like one of the most awkward news – local news – segments I’ve ever seen, [Kyle gasps] he sits down and does an interview with this reporter.
KYLE GETZ
Oh no!
MIKE JOHNSON
One of his- [chuckling] One of his tweets- One of Franklyn McClure’s tweets was… this reporter just reads it to the lieutenant governor… bunch of emojis, says “I Am not a WHORE, I am a HOE! There is a difference! One is a SLUT and the other is a PROSTITUTE! I’m the one that gets free weed for giving head!” Liked by Lieutenant [laughs] Governor McNally. And so, the TV reporter’s like “Why did you like that?” and his answer was…
[news clip of Lieutenant Governor RANDY MCNALLY of Tennessee being interviewed by PHIL WILLIAMS of NewsChannel 5 Nashville plays]
RANDY MCNALLY:
I don’t know that- You know, a lot of times, on people’s posts, you see the name and you see what they’ve written and you just press the button that says “like”. So-
PHIL WILLIAMS:
So you didn’t read that post?
RANDY MCNALLY:
I don’t recall reading the part about the- the, uh, weed, I know that.
PHIL WILLIAMS:
What about the prostitute?
RANDY MCNALLY:
I might’ve- I might’ve read that.
PHIL WILLIAMS:
In that case, was it appropriate to like the comment?
RANDY MCNALLY:
Probably not. Probably not.
[news clips ends]
KYLE GETZ
Do you re- First of all…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…I’m a whore and a ho. [Mike laughs] Don’t take that away from me. Number two… do you remember? We did the episode on Harry Potter a long time ago when JK Rowling was still in-process of trying to hide that she was a TERF?
MIKE JOHNSON
She was a proto-TERF.
KYLE GETZ
A what?
MIKE JOHNSON
Proto-TERF.
KYLE GETZ
Define that.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Proto-” is a prefix that means “The stage before you become a full-fledged something.”
KYLE GETZ
Ohhhh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think so. But I- It was like- But she did the same shit. She would like stuff and then her publicist was like “Ahh, she, you know, she just fat-fingered stuff.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that’s how this- It’s- We have to- It’s so frustrating that we have to pretend like what’s happening isn’t happening. Like, you can’t- We all know what’s happening, but because there’s- he didn’t say “I did this on purpose-” I don’t know. Everyone’s pretending like it’s not what it is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Yep. He also has reiterated his opposition to marriage defined as anything other than one man and one woman.
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but also says that he has friends in our community, and that he’s not- quote, “not against those individuals, I just try to encourage and support individuals that I know,” “[but] I probably could have been a little more careful in my selection of things.”
KYLE GETZ
“I’m not against my gay friends, I just don’t care if they have rights-”
MIKE JOHNSON
Rights, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“-or if anyone treats them well.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Exactly right.
KYLE GETZ
Fuck off.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And fuck his gay friends! If you’re gay- Like, I get your family is struggling with, like, you coming out and you’re still, like, you’re not cutting them off, you’re still working through things, but if you’re friends with someone that is actively working on these bills, a politician like this or someone who is that- or a right-wing anyone who is working hard to destroy our rights, fuck you if you’re still friends with them. I don’t know if these gay people really exist, because that’s an easy thing to be like “No, I have gay friends.” Like, sure. But if you are his gay friend, like, fuck off. Like, you need to cut ties with him, and if you’re still friends then you’re the reason he gets to say “No, I have gay friends.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. For sure.
KYLE GETZ
I’m angry at people that probably don’t exist. I don’t-
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, they’re definitely not listening to us, so…
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
News the last.
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, a court in Italy has ruled that Ruggero Freddi- [TN: saying it “ROO-ga-row”] Ruggero Freddi? [TN: saying it “rug-GAIR-oh”] Freddi? [TN: emphasizing the “di”] I don’t know. However you say this motherfucker’s name.
KYLE GETZ
New Patreon [laughs] supporter.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, a court has ruled in his favor that he was indeed unfairly dismissed from his job at the university La Sapienza because they found out that he was a former gay porn actor. So, he was given no explanation for his unfair dismissal. He used to work as an actor in the gay porn industry in the United States under the name Carlo Masi. He worked for Colt. I have seen him before.
KYLE GETZ
You’ve seen his work? You’ve seen his body of work?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of body, sweet Jesus…
KYLE GETZ
Yeah?
MIKE JOHNSON
He- Yeah. He’s- He’s a- He’s a- Yeah, he’s like a muscle daddy-kind of a situation.
KYLE GETZ
Ooh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Basically, he was looking at academia as his way out of gay porn. He got two degrees, one in mathematics and the other one in engineering, and started his PhD and became a professor at the faculty of engineering at university La Sapienza in 2017, and he then sort of noticed that his colleagues and superiors were becoming more and more prejudiced against him, and he noticed a, quote, “increasingly hostile environment.” “Many of the extracurricular activities [I] proposed [were] cancelled without explanation. [I put together] a meeting on the topic of HIV that [I] had organized with a student group [and that was] cancelled”. Things got worse in 2019, when he was offered a teaching position for a mathematics course. He worked for 60 of the 100 hours that he was contracted for, and the university fired him and then did not pay him. [Kyle gasps] That’s when he decided to file a lawsuit in the civil court of Rome. And, so, just this past January, the judge ruled in his favor and ordered the university to pay the former gay porn actor €2500 for the teaching hours that he worked and wasn’t paid for, and a fine amounting to €1500 for unjustified dismissal. He said, quote, “I was forced to sue. And I won. I hope my case gives courage to all PhD students who are exploited after years of studies and specializations,” “Now I have a normal job with a salary, I hope that others will also find the courage to speak out.”
KYLE GETZ
Nice. I think people – even people on the left to support sex work – I think some of them do it in theory, and maybe in practice it’s harder. Like, would you date a sex worker? If you found out that your teacher is a sex worker, how would you feel?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And that’s very different than just theoretically supporting sex workers, and I think a lot of people are not as progressive as they think they are, and that’s your own shit that you need to work on.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, but there’s also this weird, like, I don’t know, court of public opinion that’s a real problem, right?
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, even- I think that there are organizations of a certain size that, even if I as a leader in that organization support sex work and sex workers, I know that enough people don’t, that looking like we support it by employing someone then lends itself to people, like, not buying my product, or not applying to my school, or whatever.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But there’s also, at least in this country- I don’t know how it works in Italy, but in the United States you can’t, like, bring a person’s private life, if it’s for a protected class, into your decisions about their employment, right? So, unless you’re, like, fucking on campus and filming it, or something, like, that’s just- it doesn’t apply to your ability to teach math.
KYLE GETZ
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right?
KYLE GETZ
Exactly.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, anyway, that’s the news!
KYLE GETZ
That’s the news. Uh, speaking of people that I bet could teach math, because they’re so smart, are our following new Patreon members! Thank you to Paul Roberts. There is no fucking way I messed that up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Nailed it!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Paul- He’s gonna email and be like “My name is actually ‘pah-OOL’.”
MIKE JOHNSON
“Roe-BAIR”.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, “pah-OOL roe-BAIR”. Um… [Mike laughs] sorry I yelled at you, Paul, for no rea- You did nothing but have an easy name. [Mike laugh] Uh, Kallum Cameron? Did I not put- Oh, Kallum Cameron McDonald. Uh, most serial killers have three names…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Eugh-eugh, eugh-eugh. Um, and- Do you know why most serial killers have three names?
MIKE JOHNSON
Because it sounds sinister?
KYLE GETZ
Because they, like, they added in the middle name to make sure that, like, it’s not mistaken for a different person. It’s, like, to specify the person. It’s not- They don’t actually have three names. Anyway, that’s what you learn by listen to murder podcasts. And, Zachary Stallings.
MIKE JOHNSON
Stallings?
KYLE GETZ
I think all of these I might have gotten.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow.
KYLE GETZ
Let me know, or don’t. If you want to get- Oh, um um-
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re barebacking 1000, Kyle. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Don’t talk about my weekend on the podcast. Um, Mike’s mouth feels empty. My mouth is empty, y’all. Fill it with your 100 words.
KYLE GETZ
If you are at the $15 level and up, remember that you get to write 100 words about anything and Mike will read it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So- But if you want to check out all the benefits, go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do it.
KYLE GETZ
One of the many benefits of being a Patreon member is that almost everyone gets to vote on what topic they want to see. Either the Gap Bridgers get to vote on what topic we pick, they drive a lot of our episode ideas and conversation, and then the- most other people get to vote on the tiebreaker just in case, because that happens, but this time it was whiskey and we- Yeah. You won the whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And you and I are now drinking whiskey to celebrate.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, we are. We are drinking whiskey, although you’re drinking Fireball.
KYLE GETZ
Which you said, as I poured it, was not real whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t- I think of it as, like, a sweet cinnamon liqueur that maybe has some whiskey overtones to it. [Kyle laughs] It’s not a whiskey. [Mike laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Notes of whiskey. Hints- I’ll actually talk about Fireball in little bit.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m drinking Bulleit and I’m definitely gonna talk about Bulleit later, so it all works out.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then, for those of you who are Patreon supporters, our bonus segment this time around is going to be me making Kyle drink all of the whiskey that I have, which is many, while we talk about BDSM.
KYLE GETZ
Yes, and-
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna torture his mouth hole with my booze- face.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] And you are correct that I am drinking Fireball, only because it is the sorority girl-
MIKE JOHNSON
The rest of them are terrible. [laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, because otherwise I would have to drink whiskey. So, yeah, I- This- I don’t know. A tasting. We’ll see if it’s any good or if it’s just going to be me going “I don’t like… it.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I know. I know- I know which one. Do I do them in order of what I think you’re going to like, or dislike? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Oohh. Ohh. We’ll see.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or alphabetical. Who knows. I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Find out on the Patreon segment. Coming to a Patreon near you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Two Scotches, an Irish whiskey, a couple of Bourbons… it’s gonna be great.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
And some more Fireball. You can wash it down with Fireballs. [both chuckle] Well, I’m gonna talk to you about the history of whiskey!
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
But not really.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, like- like, you know, human beings have been like letting shit rot and drinking the juice for like millennia, and- [both chuckle] Uh, it’s true though.
KYLE GETZ
That’s the most disgusting description of alcohol, that is actually still true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, the Babylonians in Mesopotamia definitely did distillation in the 2nd millennium BC, so it’s at least 4000 years old that we’ve been doing distillation, which is different than like wine, or beer, or mead, or other kinds of alcohol in that there’s a process, right? Like you’ve got to- You’ve got to distill it, which means let it evaporate so that it purifies, and you let it- you let it evaporate and then recondense what evaporated into the drinkable form of liquor.
KYLE GETZ
Barrel- I think of barrels when I think of whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, that’s absolutely right. Yep, but we’ve been doing it a long-ass time. But the word “whiskey” is really what I wanted to talk about.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Spell it.
KYLE GETZ
I actually- [both laugh] Because of looking up info, I- Can I-
MIKE JOHNSON
What? Yeah. It’s your podcast, Kyle, do whatever the fuck you want to. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Okay, the thing I was gonna mention for Fireball: there’s a Q&A on the Fireball website and one of the Qs in their Q&A page is “Why is … ‘whisky’ … spelled without an ‘E’?” and their answer is “Fireball Cinnamon Whisky traces its roots back to the cold land of Canada, where ‘whisky’ is spelled without the letter E and people ride ‘toboggans’ instead of sleds. Strange place.” [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So there you have it.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So with or without “E”, depending.
MIKE JOHNSON
Canada, how do you feel about that?
KYLE GETZ
Canada, let us know in the Canadians-only Discord section, where no one else is allowed.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. And really, they’re not allowed anywhere else. So, like-
KYLE GETZ
That’s true! Well, that’s true, yeah. [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, so the word “whisk(e)y” is W-H-I-S-K-Y or W-H-I-S-K-E-Y, and it really just- We can’t agree on why, but “whiskey” with an E is more common in Ireland and the United States, and “whisky” without the E is basically how everywhere else spells it.
KYLE GETZ
And then, the gay community, we often- we love E so we spell it with the E. …Ecstasy.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I got it.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Okay, did you?
MIKE JOHNSON
I was trying to-
KYLE GETZ
It just wasn’t funny? Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, I-
KYLE GETZ
No, that’s fair.
MIKE JOHNSON
I-
KYLE GETZ
That’s fair, Mike. That’s fine. That’s okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I was trying to figure out how to spell whiskey with an X.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Oh yeah, “E”’s more like estrogen. [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
So, I’ll-
KYLE GETZ
The gender-neutral form [laughs] ends with an X.
MIKE JOHNSON
Whiskx? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, God help us. So whiskey, at the end of the day, is more or less universally a grain whiskey, and you distill it in a, usually, copper still of some kind, but it’s just water and grain, whether it’s malted barley or some other type of grain, and sometimes yeast. Sometimes just the sugars and the grain are what make it ferment, but it’s basically- It’s more or less the same everywhere, and they add different flavors to it based on, like, what kind of a barrel they put it in – which is something that you talked about – how much smoke they smoke the grain with before it goes into the process.
KYLE GETZ
Like- And part of why we’re talking about this is whiskey is a straight stereotype. Like, a smoky whiskey is what I imagined some dude drinks at the end of working his banking job, like, sitting on his couch like smoking a cigar.
MIKE JOHNSON
There are very, very powerful, like, tropes about men drink whiskey with a cigar in the back room, just manning it up with the other men making decisions for their lady folk, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yup. Yup.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, they’re in the study with the books and the, like, the globe-
KYLE GETZ
The robe.
MIKE JOHNSON
-the globe that doesn’t turn, it just has the whiskey in it.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] And he’s wearing a robe, a purple robe, for some reason – all of this is straight for some reason – next to a fireplace.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Uh, but yeah, like, whiskey is- does have like serious masculine overtones. All of this was to say, I think primarily this episode is going to be a straight stereotype episode.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But also, um, I really couldn’t find anything in the history of whiskey that is gay, but it is gae…lic. That’s where the word comes from. [Kyle laughs] Um- What?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. No, it’s fine. You did it.
MIKE JOHNSON
In Latin, distilled alcohol of all forms is what’s known as “aqua vitae” which is “water of life”, and that made it into the Gaelic languages Scottish Gaelic and Irish Gaelic, and modern Irish for that matter, as “uisge” [TN: saying it “WIZ-gay”] or “uisce”, [TN: saying it “WIZ-kay”] and, uh, U-I-S-C-E, and… “beatha”? [TN: saying it “BAY-tha”] “Beatha”? [TN: saying it “BEE-tha] I don’t speak Irish, Kyle. It’s like the hardest shit ever. Like, their letters don’t make the same sounds, and-
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know, Polish is pretty wild.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well yeah, that has no vowels. It’s just, like, mashed-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, z’s and w’s. [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
But yeah, it’s- The word “whiskey” ends up in English via Gaelic.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I don’t just Gae-lic, I gay suck.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right? Yeah. Gaysuck. Taoiseach… that’s the president of Ireland. Anyway, he was gay.
KYLE GETZ
Really?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, he sucks… its… dick. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
You just went on a journey there, that you lost me for.
MIKE JOHNSON
Best episode ever. Yeah, it’s- I made my joke. It’s Gay-lick.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, how do you feel about whiskey? You hate it, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Well, I think it’s bad and I think everyone pretends it’s good, and they pretend like they’re cool by ordering it old-fashioned, and they don’t look as cool as they think they do. Um, okay, anyway…
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Good segment.
KYLE GETZ
What about- You like whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
I do. I don’t particularly care for, like, Bourbons. I’m a Scotch drinker, but fairly limited to certain regions of Scotland, right? Like, there’s the really, really smoky peaty Scotches, like from Ila. I’m usually not a fan. There’re some exceptions. But, I like the fairly simple Highland Scotch, like a single malt Highland Scotch that’s not super smoky. I like that. I like that flavor. But I also- I’m not a purist. Like, some people hate the way that I drink whiskey because I almost always do whiskey on the rocks and a squirt of water. Like, I like the flavor but I don’t want the burn of the alcohol. So, there a lot of people who say whiskey should only ever be drink neat – or, meaning just the whiskey and nothing else – and maybe like a drop or two of water. Like, you’ll even-
KYLE GETZ
I’ve heard real pretentious people say you add “just a drop of water”, and it’s like… oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
It opens up the bouquet, Kyle. Blah blah blah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, something something something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Douchey douchey douchey.
MIKE JOHNSON
But at the Scotch whiskey Experience in Edinburgh, which is the world’s slowest roller coaster while it explains to you how Scotch is made, um-
KYLE GETZ
I bet the roller coaster gays are like “Wait, I have an opinion about you calling it a roller coaster!”
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s kind of adorable. They put you in a big barrel and, like, you move along a track while like they show you the history of how Scotch is made, and blah blah blah. Anyway, they said over and over again in that presentation that, like, there is no wrong way to drink Scotch. There’s no wrong way to be gay. Stop gatekeeping. If you like the flavor of it, then great. Go for it. Do it. That’s- It’s free. That’s- Do it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, um-
KYLE GETZ
That’s a good connection, yeah. I think- Yeah, you’re right that a lot of people do have judgments about what to do, and it’s like… man, just like the things you like and let other people do the same.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely.
KYLE GETZ
How- I- How do you feel when you drink whiskey?
MIKE JOHNSON
Umm… Huh. Yeah. I don’t know. Like, there’s a certain amount of, like, I feel fancy.
KYLE GETZ
Mm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, I put it in one of my glasses that’s, like, a whiskey glass, and I feel- It’s not- I don’t typically do it to get drunk. Like, I really am trying to enjoy a whiskey. Like, if I’m gonna get fucked up I’m gonna drink a bunch of seltzer, or like beer, or like shots of vodka. I don’t know, like- But I’m- This, I’m legit doing for an experience. So there’s a certain amount of, like- I guess it’s- Is that pretentiousness? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
But it’s back to, like, like what you like. You’re not using that to judge other people like in a different way. Like, you’re- So, I would drink whiskey and occasionally do that, and occasionally do that with beer, where I’m like “I want to drink this. I don’t love this, but I want to feel like a dude right now.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And that- So, there is part of me that just likes- dislikes the taste, but still likes the concept and doing it, and that’s purely about the stereotypes about both of the beer and whiskey alcohol. Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
The taste is fine. I don’t despise it. Like, I’m fine with it, but there’s like a feeling that I get of like, “Cool, I’m one of the dudes right now.”
MIKE JOHNSON
So there was a time- Okay. We’ve said before that there are a lot of gay stereotypes that start out as something that’s actually feminine, it’s associated with feminine-ism. Feminism? Femininity.
KYLE GETZ
Femininity, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then that gets sort of projected onto gay men as, like, “They are feminine because they take it,” and that’s how it enters the gay lexicon and identity. I wonder if the reverse is also true though, and here’s where I’m going with this: there was a period of time when, for all of my male friends birthdays except for you, [both chuckle] I would get them a bottle of some kind, usually of whiskey, especially my dad every year. But that’s- That’s what I would do. I would go and I would pick out a whiskey for someone and give that to them, and then when I realized that our friend Sharayah likes whiskey I was kind of thrown for a loop by that. I was like “You can’t like whiskey, you’re a girl.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then I had this consternation about, like, “Well, do I put her on my Birthday Bottle of Whiskey list, because she likes whiskey? That’s easier than figuring out what else to get her.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But I definitely had this, like, weird “I give whiskey to dudes,” and, like, I had to readjust my schema for like how the whole thing works, because she’s a female.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And so, I don’t know, it’s like, there are certain things that I associate with masculinity and therefore not with femininity, and then not with gay dudes, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes. Absolutely
MIKE JOHNSON
So, like, you end up not being on my whiskey list, well, because I know you don’t like it, but also I think that there’s also- there’s a weird, fucked up gendered thing that’s happening there that I’m, like, unpacking.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s a good example of how deeply- Like, when those kinds of things happen, when all of a sudden you you’re hit by this- what could be obvious, like, “Oh my god, I only give this to the dudes. Why do I do that?” like, that’s so deeply ingrained this feeling and this association with masculinity- I think we talk about stereotypes all over the board, and some of them are deeply ingrained, some of them are new, and some of them- But this one, I think that’s a good sign that this is deeply ingrained in our beliefs that it’s so associated with masculinity, that you, a person who… y’know, I would think you’re beyond any kind of gender norms, or assumptions, or steroty- But we still have these.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or, at the very least, I consider myself a feminist, so, like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And still this happens. So I think, yeah. But, do you want to know the truth about whether it is actually straight?
MIKE JOHNSON
Boy fucking howdy, do I do.
KYLE GETZ
Good. If you said “No,” [both laugh] then that would- This episode would be just you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh wait, not if you’re gonna tell me. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Okay, Twerry, come on in.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, no, God. Please no, God, no.
KYLE GETZ
[in a high-pitched voice] I hate whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
No, fuck, no! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
[in a high-pitched voice] I’m a straight bottom. Okay, um- [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
What do you think we find on Terry’s computer if we- [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god. There issss a… I’m pretty sure something that I’ve referred to before, “preferred alcoholic drinks … by sexual orientation”, this is for the US, it was a study done in 2011. It was published on statista.com. You have to pay to get the source, which, fuck you, that’s mean. But I didn’t, so- On statista.com. And then, you know, they do gay, straight, men and women. Those are the only options, so, oops! Only binaries. Um, okay, so-
MIKE JOHNSON
The worst breakfast cereal ever: “Oops! Only Binaries”.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Just ones and zeros. Okay, so, for whiskey, the breakdown, in order of most preferred to least preferred… Why…? [Mike laughs] Hold on. Let me- This looks weird. Let me double check this, actually. Did I do this wrong?
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, no, I just had to double check because number one, highest percentage, the group that ranked whiskey highest out of all four of these categories: gay men.
MIKE JOHNSON
What? What?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
What?
KYLE GETZ
I just- Appar- I mean, I wrote this down.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hard disagree, Kyle. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I mean, but this is numbers and yours is a feeling, and feelings don’t matter. [chuckles] Straight men are at 19-
MIKE JOHNSON
[singing] A feeling. I’m high on believing.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know what that is.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s “Hooked on a Feeling”. It’s fine.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, oh oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m in a mood today, Kyle. Do you think it’s the whiskey?
KYLE GETZ
I think it might be the whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you think it’s that I had a boy in my bed this morning?
KYLE GETZ
Ooh, do you wanna talk about that instead?
MIKE JOHNSON
No I’m gonna talk about that on the Cake episode. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Cake cake cake cake cake cake cake. Uh, gay men were at 26%, straight men were at 19%, lesbians were at 18%, and straight women were at 7%. So I would have expected straight women to be the lowest on the list, but-
MIKE JOHNSON
Just so I understand: this is-
KYLE GETZ
Oh no.
MIKE JOHNSON
-what percentage of them said “Of all of the boozes, whiskey is my favorite,”?
KYLE GETZ
Their preferred alcoholic drink.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
And yes, all of the booze are options that they could select from.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So maybe just the- Okay, so then I also wrote, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
That still seems like a lot. Like, 1 out of 4 gay dudes?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I would think, like, just like vodka soda would be like 85% and then like a Long Tail of nothing after that.
KYLE GETZ
You could pick multiple ones.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay, okay. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
But still, a quarter- Whether or not they they’re ordering it on this time, a quarter of gay men like whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, well now I think it’s bullshit.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah? Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because maybe- Okay, here’s- I’m trying to talk and think at the same time.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s a problem.
KYLE GETZ
That’s what podcasting is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. Um, six years in, Kyle. Here we go. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
We are figuring- I think we’re starting to figure it out.
MIKE JOHNSON
I wonder if that made it easy for them to check the things that they think that they’re supposed to be into, if it’s like a masking thing for them, if it’s like “Whiskey? Yeah, I’m into whiskey! Dude, dude, dude!” but like they don’t actually drink it in their real life?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Maybe.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause “Select your favorite,” that’s a different proposition than, like, “What, of these, will you put in your hole?”
KYLE GETZ
Yep. [both laugh] And we know that gays will put anything in there. So, for gay men, the highest percentage drink was wine, followed closely by vodka. For lesbians, the highest percentage was beer, followed by wine actually. They liked wine at a higher rate than gay men.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, straight men, beer was far and away their preference. Beer was at 61%, said they liked beer, and 30% said wine. So-
MIKE JOHNSON
That checks out.
KYLE GETZ
Everything else was a little bit closer, but for st- That was like the highest percentage, is that straight men like beer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And, interesting, lesbians and straight men – the numbers are different, but the order – beer, wine, vodka, same order for both groups, which, that’s the stereotype is that, you know, straight men and lesbian women are akin to each other.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And straight women, it goes wine, beer, vodka. So, no one had whiskey in their top three, but yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s interesting to me too. Like, wine being first for straight chicks checks out. Okay-
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
But I expect number two to be, like, I don’t know, vodka?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, wine, beer, vodka for straight women. And, for everyone, wine was up there, which I don’t think of straight men- You know, I think straight men is not liking wine but, again, like, this is where- Yes, far and away they more than double liked beer, but that doesn’t mean zero like wine. Everything then gets to these binaries, as we talked about. Like, everything just gets to “Oh, gay men like it more, so that means straight men don’t like it,” which, that isn’t the case, and I think it’s hard to untrain our brain from, like, putting things into just “Yes,” or “No,” categories.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Well, there’s also, um, way back in season one on our Wine episode, the whole talk about how, like, straight dudes… [in a deep voice] “I only drink, red and it has to be a Cab.”
KYLE GETZ
“I want a big bold red,” And- Yeah, our friend Chris was on there and he was like “It’s hot. Like, are you sure you don’t want a cool refreshing white wine? I know that’s for ladies, but it’s okay if you drink that.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Too gay! Too gay!
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep. Yeah. So yeah, wine does have a big enough variety that, you know- As does beer, so… And everyone fucking loves vodka. That’s the gayta!
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayta, gayta, gayta!
KYLE GETZ
Surprising. Alright, well, I’m going to- I’m gonna tell you a very sort of, I don’t know, painful story. It’s not painful-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
The story’s not painful, the story is great. I just don’t know how to string it together to be, like, maximum drama, you know?
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. I don’t- Usually, before you start telling a story, you don’t say “This is gonna be bad.” Usually- [laughs] Usually that’s not a great setup for a story, but-
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely true. I’m gonna tell you about the movie “Whisky Galore!”.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. I don’t know what this is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Whiskey Galore! is a film that came out in 1949, and it’s a British comedy produced by Ealing Studios. It starred Basil Radford, Bruce Seton, Joan Greenwood, and Gordon Jackson.
KYLE GETZ
…No.
MIKE JOHNSON
All of those people are dead.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
But yeah, it came out in 1949 and, in that movie, the inhabitants of the isolated Scottish island… of Todday? Todday. Todday. T-O-D-D-A-Y. It’s in the Outer Hebrides. So, they run out of whiskey, it’s during World War II, they have no whiskey, everyone’s real sad because, [Kyle laughs] you know, whiskey is the only thing worth living for, I guess, if you’re Scottish?
KYLE GETZ
Sure. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I- Anyway. But then- So a freighter, the SS Cabinet Minister, runs aground and begins to sink, and they learn that there’s 50,000 cases of whiskey on this boat.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
So where this is going is: the French version of this movie, Whiskey Galore!, is “Whisky à gogo !”. “À gogo” means “a lot”, or “in abundance”, “galore”, there’s a bunch. So, Whiskey Galore! was Whisky à gogo !. So then, in France, in… Juan-les-Pins… [TN: saying it “WAUN-luh-pee”] It’s a seaside town near Cannes.
KYLE GETZ
Okay, you’ve had some names to do today. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. This dude opened a French bar in the early 60s, named for that movie, called “Whisky à Gogo”. It was at that bar that he began to hire lady dancers that began to be called go-go dancers. [Kyle gasps] And then there was a, uh, Los Angeles club that borrowed the same name, and they- it’s still there, actually, a bar called “Whisky a Go Go.” It’s in West Hollywood and- on the Sunset Strip, and they borrowed their name and business model from this French bar, really popularized the idea of lady go-go dancers, and then that morphed eventually into male go-go dancing: topless men and then, eventually, just, like, dudes in their in their underwear. Anyway, so, like, that’s the very, very short version of just, like, we have whiskey to thank for go-go boys!
KYLE GETZ
Wow. You owe so much to whiskey.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, I do. I do. [both chuckle] I’ve spent so much money on whiskey. It’s so much money on go-go boys.
KYLE GETZ
Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between whiskey and go-go boys for you. You’re like “Pour me a glass of one of either.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah. Yeah yeah. But, uh, apparently go-go boys started in the 60s, and as a direct influence from from go-go girls, and go-go girls, you know, got their name from this French bar that got its name from this movie about whiskey shortage.
KYLE GETZ
That’s so weird, how language works like that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it would have been crazy to be- Like, we’ve talked a lot about the post-Stonewall pre-AIDS gay- scene gay culture.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently, it was pretty raunchy. Like, there was- In the United States, which, I think of the United States is being, like, super prudish and, like, a place where you can’t go see full dong in public. [Kyle chuckles] But that- In the 70s, that was not the case. There were lots of live sex shows, male strip clubs. There was, you know, a lot of go-go dancing that started during that time that was just, like, my favorite kind of go-go bar but everywhere.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] You wouldn’t have to go to a go-go bar, you’d just go to a bar.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah, yeah. And then, some people say that, like, go-go dancing- There was this big decline in go-go dancing in the 70s, but Madonna brought it back.
KYLE GETZ
Huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that kind of upsets me in a way, because I think she gets credit for a lot of stuff that, like, isn’t actually hers. But, um-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. But she did- Like, you can give her credit for popularizing something, but I think maybe some people think that it started there.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s true. There’s like a-
KYLE GETZ
There’s some credit that she should be given, but she’s been given more credit than is due.
MIKE JOHNSON
I just think about voguing – right? – and like, she full-on stole that from black people.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or did she? Or like, was that her intent? Or like- I don’t know. What do black people think? Do they think that this white lady stole their- their art form? Like, I’ve heard that sometimes, but I don’t actually know that we talk about it that much.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Anyway, that was my very contorted and pained way [Kyle laughs] of letting you know that whiskey gave us the term “go-go boy”.
KYLE GETZ
It wasn’t contorted, you vogued through that segment.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
I’m still stuck on- I just- I wrote this and then blocked it, that gay men have a higher percentage- like, preference for whiskey than straight men. I don’t know- Like, I don’t know why I, like, I just- I didn’t proc- I didn’t- I wrote that down and then clearly just was like “I reject this information,” and moved on, because I, like, I was surprised all over again.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I’m still on that. Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s like when I go back and listen to an old episode of Gayish and I’m like “That sounds like me. I remember none of that.”
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Sometimes I learn a lot from listening to old episodes. [Mike laughs] Sometimes about my own life, you know? It’s a journey for all of us, together. Let’s all listen to back episodes, that helps our downloads. Okay, I’m gonna talk about Firewall- Nope, Fireball.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fireball?
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Which I am actively drinking.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, so- What? You raised your hand. [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
I did!
KYLE GETZ
Mike. Mike, you go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
We should institute our hand raising policy.
MIKE JOHNSON
God, it would- it would have helped with my brothers being on last week, I think. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Ohh, yep. Yep. Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks to everybody for being so nice about that episode. It was a lot of fun.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks to your brothers! We didn’t really thank them. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
We didn’t really thank them.
KYLE GETZ
It was because we were doing our lil schtick. Thanks to your brothers for being on! It was a blast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
We should have them on again.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that’s par for the course though. Like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, why tell them nice things?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Just- They know, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, you know. Yeah. Don’t tell your family you love them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Exactly. Fireball is just, like, white trash nectar, right? Like-
KYLE GETZ
My first question is: ask you and your family.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, great. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Like, you and your family drink it. Is that what you’re referring to, like, your family?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Shots of fireball, shots of Rumple Minze.
KYLE GETZ
Rumple Minze.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, that’s the- I have a bottle of Rumple Minze. That’s not whiskey, so we can’t do that during the Patreon segment, but, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
No, that’d be illegal. When I went-
MIKE JOHNSON
You did shots of Fireball with my grandma! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yes, like, who was walking around with a fucking tray, like, who wa- like, doing shots with people! It was- Compared to my family, who, my parents split one margarita at dinner – you know? – it’s just very different.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But is it- Is it- Is that just your family, or is it actually kind of a white trash stereotype?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think of it as being a white trash thing, and I don’t- I think it’s because it’s so approachable and easy, and, going back to our talk earlier about, like, the smoke filled room and the snifter of brandy with a cigar, there’s a sophistication level that’s there and it really feels like the just, like, smack-your-dick-in-my-face cinnamon flavor that overpowers everything whiskey-esque about it is like… that screams low class. It’s like, it’s the low class version of this otherwise classy thing, to say it’s “Fireball whiskey.” I don’t know. I didn’t think about any of that before I said it. So now I-
KYLE GETZ
Gayish. [Mike laughs] Um, is- But you stumbled- No, no, no, that all makes sense, but where you got to is “Is ‘Fireball’ whiskey?” Actually, I’m gonna talk about that. Is “Fireball” whiskey?
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Not those little tiny bottles. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Not those- Well, you said even the- There’s- Is it actually, like, made of whiskey, versus like what you’re talking about, like, oh, there’s like, you know, heavy cinnamon flavoring? Yes, the little things of Fireball are not- there is no whiskey in them. There’s small, like, 99 cents things that are in the smaller bottles, they are sold in more places, and those are called Fireball Cinnamon.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
Versus Fire Cinnamon Whisky which is- contains whiskey, which is the bigger bottles of it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, okay. So like, the big- the handle, the half gallon of Fireball that you just poured this drink that you’re actively drinking out of likely is- has whiskey in it.
KYLE GETZ
I looked at the name of the bottle as I poured it, and it said “Whisky” on it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
That is the- Like, it’s one of those tricky things.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Technically correct” is the best kind of correct, Kyle. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Okay, speaking of, we’ll see what you say about this. On the Fire Cinnamon label…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…so the one that does not contain whiskey…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…the lil bottles, Fire Cinnamon label says “Malt beverage with natural whisky & other flavors and caramel color.”
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, that’s corporate bullshit for… I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
“natural whiskey & other flavors.” What they- They are actually being sued over this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, okay, okay. Okay, okay, okay.
KYLE GETZ
They-
MIKE JOHNSON
I’d heard something about this, but not over the why.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, it is-
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, just the headline that went out was just like “It has no whiskey in it.”
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
You’re drinking, I don’t know, somebody’s Big Red chewing gum spit? I don’t know. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, someone just snapped cinnamon, chewed on the sides, and pissed into a bottle, and that’s what you’re-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Um, no, it’s because “natural whiskey & other flavors,” like, the ambiguity is clearly intentional. Natural whiskey flavor & other flavors.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s- But it’s constructed in a way that- And they do have- To their credit, “natural whiskey & other flavors” is ampersand, and then they wrote out the word “and caramel color”, so those things go together.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, they just did this all in the most convoluted way, so that people think it’s whiskey. It’s clearly intending to do this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Have you heard of all of those lawsuits where, like, the Oxford comma actually has, like, determined the legality of what’s happening?
KYLE GETZ
Oh. I think I’ve- That’s my favorite thing because it’s, like, you should always care about grammar, not just when it gets you sued.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Use the Oxford comma, ya bitches.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. Mhm, mhm. Oxford will thank you. So, the class action lawsuit is for fraud and misrepresentation. Also, I read, on NPR, that part of the lawsuit is, “given the lack of whiskey, the 99 cents for a 1.7 fluid ounce bottle is overpriced.” Imagine being sued [chuckles] because your product was too expensive given how shitty it is.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, yeah. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I really enjoyed that. Uh, the suit seeks to represent more than 100 additional customers, and the amount of damages exceeds 5 million.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So I-
MIKE JOHNSON
How can I get in on that sweet, sweet cinnamony money goodness? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Your family could be, like, named at the top- It could be “Johnsons v. Fireball” if- I think, based on how much y’all drink this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I mentioned one of the questions on Q&A that was about why it’s spelled without an “e”. There’s also “Is Fireball made with real cinnamon?” and they say “You’re damn right!” Don’t worry, I can taste it. You’ve- [Mike laughs] Yeah, you’ve put enough in it for two. And “Is Fireball safe to drink? I heard Fireball has antifreeze in it, is that true.”
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ve heard that too.
KYLE GETZ
No, it doesn’t have antifreeze.
MIKE JOHNSON
Somebody told me that it has formaldehyde in it. I’m like “Fuck you, it does not.”
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I don’t think it does. And that is- That is Fireball.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. How is it? You’re out? You’re almost out.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah, I did- I did one finger. I have a tiny butthole of a glass.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Excellent.
KYLE GETZ
I can only take one finger.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well done. I have to be careful because, like, the cinnamon and the booze will, like, sometimes like make my heartburn get out of control if I, like, you know, if I’m not ready for it.
KYLE GETZ
But also this- Like, like you mentioned, this is one where, because of like the cinnamon and like its sweetness, you can kind of like drink it and then all of a sudden be like “Oh, goodbye, everybody.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“This is the end for me.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Have you ever had a… what’s it called… an Orchard Fire?
KYLE GETZ
No, what’s that?
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s an Angry Orchard cider with a shot of Fireball in it.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that sounds delicious.
MIKE JOHNSON
Lots of people fuckin’ love that. Also, that’s white trash as fuck and it’s amazing. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I love that. I want that now.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. I don’t have any Angry Orchard, I’m sorry, but, like-
KYLE GETZ
Ah, fuckin’ Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I’ll just get the angry…
MIKE JOHNSON
Just angry?
KYLE GETZ
I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
The fire part? Yeah, anyway. What you were- You just talked about Fireball so I’m gonna talk about what I’m drinking, which is Bulleit.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, uh-
KYLE GETZ
These name- Okay, I just realized this: both names are- Like, whiskey names, are they all like [doing a gruff voice] “I’m a man. It’s Bulleit!”? Like, there’s got to be one like “Tank Shield”, and there’s probably another one called like “Sword Penis”, you know? Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Shield Whiskey, let’s see if it’s- Uh… oh. There is a product called “Tank Shield”.
KYLE GETZ
What is it? [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, but it is- It’s paint for the outside of tanks. For, like, holding tanks.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Oh, perfect. That’s actually a good name for that.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, drink it, you’ll probably get fucked up. So, like- [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
That does have antifreeze in it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, I think you’re right. Like, Scottish whiskies, they’re named after like the- like, it’s always some like Auchentoshan, and Glenlivet, and Glenfiddich, and Tullibardine. Like-
KYLE GETZ
Glengoolie is on Archer.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then, it seems like American whiskies are named after people. Jim Beam, Jack Daniels, uh…
KYLE GETZ
Oh, yeah. It’s like, “Grandpa used to get fucked up on this shit. Let’s name it after him!”
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
You we’re gonna talk about Bulleit.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah, I’m gonna talk about Bulleit. Okay, so, I want to be clear: I plan on, as soon as this bottle is done, which, there’s maybe one more glass of it left in the bottle, I’m never gonna buy it again.
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Will you tell us why during the course of this segment?
MIKE JOHNSON
I am gonna tell you why, according- Yeah, during this segment. Okay, so, Bulleit Bourbon has, like, risen and become super popular for a long time. It was, you know, everywhere, and Costco sells it, which is why I have a bottle, because I throw parties and I usually get all my shit at Costco. And, it’s pretty well-regarded for like its high quality given the price point. And it was- It’s distilled in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky by a man named Tom Bulleit. And that-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, that’s really a name?
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s really a name, which is why it’s spelled the way that it’s spelled. Because it’s not spelled “bullet” like a gun bullet. It’s spelled B-U-L-L-E-I-T.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
The Bulleit family apparently has been making whiskey at least since the 1830s, and history happens, mergers happen, and it becomes part of this megacorporation called Diageo.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Now, according to the HRC, Diageo is one of the best places to work for LGBT equality-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, nice.
MIKE JOHNSON
-for the last nine years, but the Bulleits themselves, apparently, are just fuckin’ homophobic.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, Hollis Bulleit, the daughter of Tom – and for a long time she was known as the First Lady of Bourbon – in 2017 she posted to Facebook that she and her wife, Cher – hah, nice – had been squeezed out of the family business because they’re lesbians.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, the First Lady of Bourbon married a woman and we can’t have that in Kentucky, so she was she was forced out, pushed out.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Oh, just her wife Cher. I’m still also- I can’t- Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean-
KYLE GETZ
There’s just- There was just a lot in that sentence that was very gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Lesbians, if you want gays to care about you more, marry a Cher. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
[singing] Do you believe in pussy after love?
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Okay, so, in this Facebook post she said, quote, “One is not respecting personal family business by staying silent when people’s civil rights are at stake.” “In light of my experience, I do not understand how the company I worked for is on many of the top … ‘best places’ [lists] for LGBTQIA employees to work.” There’s homophobia in the whiskey industry, and in the alcohol industry in general. “In the course of [the] ten years [that] Cher and I spent [with the company we spent] less than three weeks time in the company of the Bulleit family. I was forced to deflect questions about my family at work events which put me in a horrible position [of] not … my making; either through assumptions, omissions, or direct advice. … [And when my] step-grandmother passed I got [only] a text.”
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
“I was asked to come home for Christmas [but] Cher was not invited.”
KYLE GETZ
Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
The only holiday … we attended was Thanksgiving in 2016, and … we were promptly uninvited via text from the following core family Christmas. And [it was] because [the] family was business and intertwined with a global corporation, I find it odd that I did not benefit from the departments and safeguards that are put into place to either intervene or provide mediation or educational diversity training as would be the expected protocol for employees in this type of situation.” Anyway, she goes on.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a big long thing about how, like, Bulleit is homophobic as fuck, the family is homophobic as fuck. “My wife and I have had an awful time. I’ve been asked to either not invite her or to minimize our relationship, especially in things like photographs.”
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
There’s- What she’s describing, I think that’s so common for people, like, queer people. It may not be that your family says [doing an old crusty voice] “You’re a faggot,” and they kick you in the butt and say “Never come home!” Like, they do these things like not invite your significant other where everyone else is, and you’re like “Wait, was that-” And these- Like, one time you’re like “Okay, was that-” Or, like, “Stand this place in the photographs,” or “Don’t talk about this thing,” and you’re like “Oh, wait, is that how they would treat any relat-” It’s just, like, what she’s describing, she adds it up to make it clear that they’re homophobic, but I could- I’m just picturing this common queer experience where you do like one thing and you’re like “I don’t know,” and, like, and then eventually you’re like “Oh, fuck, like, this is completely homophobic.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Sort of the death by 1000 paper cuts thing, right?
KYLE GETZ
Exactly.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, nothing stands out a, like, smoking gun or whatever, but-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. If they did one of those, and nothing else, that might have just been a bad incident, but not- Yeah, it was just- That just struck me as like- And that’s how so many queer people have to deal with their families, and it’s not as kind of black and white as you may think until you tie all the examples together.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely, and I think- This is the sort of problematic space too, I think, of, like, spirit of the law versus letter of the law or whatever. It’s a family brand. It’s a family business, but is now owned by a megacorporation, Diageo. So, how did they deal with this situation when it came to light?
KYLE GETZ
Mmm. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was to just shit on her and say that she was wrong. [Kyle gasps] A Diageo spokesperson says that her Facebook posts are, quote, “inaccurate and come after she failed to agree to new contract terms.” They’re saying she wasn’t fired, she wasn’t pushed out: she wouldn’t sign the contract. Quote, “It is unfortunate that we were not able to come to terms on the multi-year contract that we recently offered to Hollis. However, to insinuate that the failure to do so was due to bias of any kind is simply unfair and inaccurate. We are very proud of our long track record of work, through many of our brands, to support the LGBT community. We are appreciative of Hollis’s past efforts on behalf of the brand and the industry.” But that’s also, like, kind of not the point, right? Like-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. That’s so shitty. I don’t- Like, “inaccurate”? So they’re saying she’s lying. Like, that’s basically what they said, and who do I believe, the person who has to risk everything and her entire relationship with her business, her past, her family? To risk all of- Like, people don’t step forward lightly.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
I think that’s another thing. Like, everyone’s just like “Oh, you’re lying,” or “Oh, you want attention.” Like, do you- Can you imagine the years of turmoil this person has to go through and the ongoing shit that you would have to do to speak out against your family like this?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
And then just be like “Oh, no, she’s lying.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Like, that sucks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. So, I have not decided yet whether I’m going to turn the rock over and look under the rock to see what other brands Diageo owns, but her story-
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think Diageo is, like, guilty of a different crime. Her story that her family – the Bulleit family, the family whose name is on this alcohol that I’m drinking – is so fucking terrible to her and her wife… I’m done with Bulleit. So I’ll finish this bottle and never again.
KYLE GETZ
Is that like- Do you have other options that you like just as much? Is that kind of like a “Ugh, like, I’ll have to- I guess I’ll have to order other things now and that sucks”? Like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I mean, I’m not really a big, like, Kentucky Bourbon fan to begin with, so, like, I just- I won’t be getting it for my parties, and I, like- That’s not a huge loss, so I- Thanks, Kyle, my sacrifice means nothing because I didn’t actually care. It’s like- It’s like, I dunno, giving up sardines for Lent. [both chuckle] Like, you didn’t- You’re not doing Jesus very many favors there, because you didn’t like them anyway.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I’m gonna give up sex with women for Lent.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
No, no, no, I didn’t mean that. I was just curious, like, you know, what- I don’t know. I don’t know why I set up just to be weirdly rude. [chuckles] I did not mean that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you know why I whiskey on the list?
KYLE GETZ
Why?
MIKE JOHNSON
St. Patrick’s Day. Happy St. Patrick’s Day, everybody! That’s this week.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, fuck! Oh. Oh! Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. ‘Cause- Yeah. Irish are all alcoholics. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
And you have time to not buy Bulleit if you go out and get your St. Patrick’s Day bevs.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely. I’m gonna drink Jameson instead. It’s gonna be great.
KYLE GETZ
Nice!
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, so, I did want to say, some options: there is an article on whiskeyraiders.com, which I think is, just, that’s not a website that I want to belong to but it exists. But, in 2022, they wrote an article that’s a list of five LGBTQ+-owned whiskey brands to support after pride, which I thought was an interesting thing. The article came out in July. Pride Month is June.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So they’re like “If you want to keep supporting queer people, not just during the rainbowwashed Pride Month of June, here are five options for you.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, one is Kings County Distillery. They’re in New York. They make corn and barley whiskies. There’s one called Still Austin which is in Austin, Texas. Chris Seals, apparently, is the co-founder and CEO of that. They have- There’s Republic Restoratives Distillery and they are based in- I don’t know where they’re based, but it’s owned and operated by women and lesbians, Boston Harbor Distillery… Milam & Greene is the last one, but there are lots of options and we can post the list somewhere, I guess… or not. I don’t know. Probably won’t, but-
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Let’s be honest.
MIKE JOHNSON
But in a very masculine, very straight-focused industry, like, at least in terms of image as the whiskey industry, there are at least five LGBTQ+-owned whiskey brands that you can, you know, buy local. Buy family or whate-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You have options. Well, yeah- I mean, part of that, in the end, is like, yeah, like- I mean how much will that affect you to- instead of buying Bulleit, buy something else? Like, there’s plenty of options out there. Surely you can give this up.
MIKE JOHNSON
You can give this up, and don’t call me Shirley. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, I- Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I’m gonna- On the Patreon segment, I have a theory that whiskey is BDSM.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
But I-
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna prove it.
KYLE GETZ
Okay- Because I’m- you’re gonna torture my mouth?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
You’re gonna dom whiskey me?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Um, I will talk a little bit more about it on the Patreon segment.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
Um, I- Did we do it? I don’t know. It’s weird, because this is one where I told you numbers that said the opposite.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah!
KYLE GETZ
And, in my mind, it’s still a masculine dude thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, okay.
KYLE GETZ
I don’t, like-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m with you. I’m with you. I like that, though.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, why?
MIKE JOHNSON
Because I think that life is messy and, on the show, I think that we tend to focus on gay stereotypes and whether they’re true or not, and whether they apply or not, but, like, to also look at a straight stereotype that turns out is the opposite, potentially?
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that’s super interesting, but still very much like what we want to talk about work on, but, like, it’s a different outcome than we’re used to and I love that.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I think it says something that, like, stereotype- This is one- So, the stereotype is not based in truth, and-
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a type of stereo. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
It’s a type of stereo: stereo-type. Um, [chuckles] I just saw Derek shake his head. [Mike laughs] Um, I think that yeah, the stereotypes are based on this image that we’ve cultivated, and that image is sometimes creat- There’s- Sometimes there’s a, like, there’s a baseline of truth that then it grows from, and this might not- And maybe that’s what happened but it’s evolved over the years or- I don’t know. You know, it’s- It’d be interesting, like, maybe we can do this again and look more at why that has evolved over time or where this started, but yeah, it’s just… yeah. It bugs me. It bugs me that, like, my- And maybe this is also part of it, is like, it takes time to change your mental- If you have this mental idea of “It’s a straight thing,” just looking at these numbers once doesn’t turn my brain around all immediately and all of a sudden.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And I think that’s- That’s okay. This one is a little bit more lighthearted, it’s fine if I- I don’t know. It’s not a huge impactful thing that I think straight dudes do this; that doesn’t make too big of a difference. It’s like not this big heavy thing. But I think, for bigger heavier things, that’s important to know and be okay with: that it takes time to change. Like, starting with data is a great place to start if that’s how you roll, and it will then continue to take time to have that sink in and really feel it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Maybe that’s the frustration that I’m feeling, is that the realization is the hardest part, but then there’s this discomfort after the realization but before you’ve really changed your mental, like, map of this thing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And that’s the space I’m in right now.
MIKE JOHNSON
How much do you think that this is just, like, marketing? Right? Like, Subaru became the lesbian car – we learned this in season one – because they went after and marketed to lesbians, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that one was also based in truth. There were- Lesbians tended to – and I think that’s different than this – like, they tended to- Well, maybe not. I don’t know. They did buy it more often. Subaru’s like “Cool, let’s actually focus on the LGBT community, and lesbian specifically,” and they did it, I think, right, when they did it. I wonder, maybe this did start a- I love how sort of this thing, like the names of it, really sound like they’re marketed towards dudes. Like, the names of things being either dude names or- I mean, Bulleit, you taught me, was a name, but like “Fireball,” like, these are names that are trying to be like “Hey bros, buy me.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
“I’m cool. I’m straight.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, and the marketing for all of these things is like a lot of earth tones, a lot of, like, brown filters on the photographs, like caramel coloring and a lot of, like- I feel like it doesn’t really focus on the people, but when there are people it’s usually like a rugged-looking handsome dude in like a suit.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, you know.
KYLE GETZ
Absolutely. At a, like, upscale bar ordering like his, you know, whiskey drink.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. And maybe hitting on a beautiful woman who’s, like, into him because he’s drinkin’ that whiskey.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, yeah, I think marketing has a lot to do with it and I don’t expect them to change until they have to or need to, right?
KYLE GETZ
Right. Right.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, they’re gonna keep- They’re gonna keep- It’s working, they’re making their money, so they’re gonna keep doing it, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. This is a weird one but I’m glad we talked about it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I wouldn’t- I appreciate the Gap Bridgers, ‘cause I don’t think I would have picked this one myself. So, thanks for voting, y’all.
MIKE JOHNSON
You can also thank me.
KYLE GETZ
Eh, I could. [Mike laughs] That’s true, I could.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. It means we’re gonna have to drink some whiskey, Kyle. Do you want to- Do you want to take a break?
KYLE GETZ
[sighs] Let’s talk for another 30 minutes about other th- [Mike laughs] Yeah, let’s take a break.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, let’s take a break.
KYLE GETZ
Break!
[Break music starts]
MIKE JOHNSON
[slurps]
[Break music stops abruptly]
MIKE JOHNSON
…That’s me sucking whisky.
KYLE GETZ
Ew, I know! I hated it!
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Does that mean we’re- Are we ready?
KYLE GETZ
I’m ready.
MIKE JOHNSON
Are we back?
KYLE GETZ
Are… are we back? [Mike laughs] Are we? We our Patreon segment and-
MIKE JOHNSON
We drank!
KYLE GETZ
Goodbye, everybody. [Mike laughs] Um, we’re back! We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first…!
KYLE GETZ
But first…!
MIKE JOHNSON
Our-
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, but first but first…
KYLE GETZ
But first but first…
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I want to thank a couple people that are just, like, very active with Gayish. I want to thank Justin Eddins, who always replies to our posts on – and promotes on – Twitter, on Instagram. Thank you, Justin. And, on Spaces, JaeFox, who is always like very active there. Thank you to the, like, people that are just like big fans and reply and talk to us. We appreciate you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Jamie Foxx listens?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, yes. [Mike laughs] But imagine without the “mie”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Take the “mie” out to “Jamie Foxx” and you’ve got JaeFox. Um, also, something that I keep forgetting to mention is we have been doing transcripts for our recent episodes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And that is thanks to- That’s part of what we’ve been using Patreon funds for. That’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Thanks, Patreon, it’s expensive.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. It costs money. AI does a bad job or not good enough to make it readable, which, part of the survey results showed that a decent number of you wanted transcripts and we have the funds through Patreon, thanks to Patreon, to be able to do that. I think it’s both- You know, it’s helpful to us just from like, you know, search and Google perspective, and also we want- we think that our podcast should be accessible to those- anyone for which reading the text would be helpful.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So, thank you to Patreon. I want them to know that their money is going to things that help both us and everyone have more access to the podcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
KYLE GETZ
And now… but first…
MIKE JOHNSON
Our website is gayishpodcast.com.
KYLE GETZ
We are on Instagram, Spaces, we have a discord. You can go to gayishpodcast.com/contact to find all the places.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our physical mailing addresses post office box 19882 Seattle, Washington 9109.
KYLE GETZ
I just had the thought of, like, “Kyle, get your shit together!” [Mike laughs] Okay, do you want to do our Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
No! [singing] Local Gay Bar Review!
KYLE GETZ
Oh. Ooo!
MIKE JOHNSON
I like surprising you with those.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I always- How do I not- I always forget.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] This time I’m talking about Hi Tops in San Francisco, California.
KYLE GETZ
I love high tops. [laughs]
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ve gotta say: my visit there, I was neither high nor did I see any tops. There was a bunch of twinks in jockstraps. Um, but-
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] You saw low bottoms.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Lo Bottoms is a better name for this bar. Uh, no- I’ve been there several times now. It’s like- That was like my third or fourth visit the most recent time, and I was there with um-
KYLE GETZ
Where is it, did you say?
MIKE JOHNSON
San Francisco.
KYLE GETZ
San Francisco! Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
In the Castro. And, uh, it was- Okay, one thing I love about Hi Tops – at least, the last time I was there – there were go-go dancers there, like, up on the bar, that were different body types than just the white, jacked, uh… gay. And-
KYLE GETZ
I love- When you walk in and there’s a, like, a go-go dancer that’s not what you’d expect, I love that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It makes me feel so good to see that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Absolutely. It was very busy, hard to get a drink. That has been my experience there multiple times. But, uh, I understand the food is good, though I’ve not tried it. I had a good time that night. 3 dildos.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
For your good time? That’s an average time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Alright! Fuck you, Hi Tops. [Mike laughs] Umm, Gayest & Straightest!
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s do our Gayest & Straightest.
KYLE GETZ
I’ll go first.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, do it.
KYLE GETZ
My straightest is the, like, bar and/or coffee shop that we went to. I had never seen it before.
MIKE JOHNSON
Me neither.
KYLE GETZ
I had walked past it so many times, and like, once I got in, it was like… it’s both in the gayborhood that I live in, but still, like, has that straight vibe of like skateboarding videos on TV and you can order your – you know – your beer, your coffee, or whatever. It’s like- had an industrial, cold feeling.
MIKE JOHNSON
I kind of wondered what they were up to though because, like, skateboarding videos: that’s a vibe. I did not see like a straight-only crowd. Like, there were a lot of queer people there.
KYLE GETZ
Right. I think it was in line with the percentage of queer people that just exist in that- [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
In the neighborhood? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. I think that that wasn’t- No, yeah yeah. My gayest is: at that bar there were skateboarding videos and I got- I don’t know if- You probably noticed, when we were talking, at one point I got very distracted because one of the skateboarders lifted up a shirt to wipe his face.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And that always- You know, that’s classic. Gay distracted me because I can see your abs now.
MIKE JOHNSON
You were dickstracted.
KYLE GETZ
Dick distracted, obvi. [Mike laughs] What about you?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, let’s see… So, the straightest thing about me this week was, last weekend, Marty and Matthew were here.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Again, great episode.
KYLE GETZ
Hi. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks for being here. But uh, we all hopped in the Jeep for- I forget what time. It doesn’t matter what time. Uh, and Murph said “Your Jeep smells like your dog you don’t have,” [both laugh] which is- which is accurate. There’s still- There’s still Boomer hair everywhere in the jeep, I just haven’t cleaned it out.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Haven’t, like- It’s just too much work.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. I hear you.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it’s the only part of him I have left.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, boy.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] Uh, the gayest thing about me this week is, uh, Spotify. I said to you, recently, I want more queer, like, what-are-the-gays-listening-to-these-days influences.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And you put a Janelle Monae- You put a couple of things on my Spotify, which is amazing, but this last week, I think, just on repeat one after the other and then back, I’ve been listening to Unholy by Sam Smith [Kyle chuckles] and Kim Petras, and Flowers by Miley Cyrus.
KYLE GETZ
Yes!
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ve just been like- That’s all I’ve heard, like, for- nonstop the last week.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. The new album by Miley Cyrus out now, no one has paid us to say that, it’s just what you need to know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
Um, I have a listeners Gayest & Straightest.
MIKE JOHNSON
Do it!
KYLE GETZ
This is from Spaces, so in-
MIKE JOHNSON
Hi, Spaces.
KYLE GETZ
Hi. In Spaces, there are- they updated the app so now there are multiple, like, kind of different sections you can go to, and Derek has created a Gayest & Straightest section so post your Gayest & Straightest there. This great one, from Greg, is “Gayest: walking down Hollywood Boulevard…” We’re already in, you know?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But, he continues “wearing my pride hat while holding hands with my boyfriend to get froyo together.” [both laugh]
MIKE JOHNSON
Aww.
KYLE GETZ
You did 10 stereotypes in a row. Uh, “Straightest: waking up at 3:30am to put on my clothes and steel toe boots to get to my job stocking produce at the Costco Wholesale warehouse.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, Costco is straight?
KYLE GETZ
And the warehouse too?
MIKE JOHNSON
But, like, so many gays shop there but like the building itself it’s the straightest thing ever. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yep. That was, like, all of the gay and all of the straight stereotypes in one, so I love that. Thank you. So go post- Go download the Spaces app, join our group, and post your Gayest & Straightest there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Before we close the show, we would love to see you in Boise, please, at the Treefort Music Festival that is on Friday, March the 24th at 6pm mountain time. You do not need a festival pass to see us. It is free, open to the public. Do it.
KYLE GETZ
Please cum, spell “semen”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, thank you also to our Super Gap Bridgers, these are our Patreon members at the highest level. Thank you to Andrew Bugbee, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeaaah!
KYLE GETZ
Thank you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Whiskey.
KYLE GETZ
Whiskey!
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] That’s it. This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Be you.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
Especially since I’m pretty sure some of them are gonna be like torture for you, so it’s not not BDSM. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] And like, I’m also-
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna dom daddy your whiskey mouth. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] That was a phrase. Um, and-
MIKE JOHNSON
Put this in your hole, bitch! [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
I was gonna say, we need to make sure that the audio people get some something good still-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-but then you just said all those things you said, so we’ll be fine either way. [Mike laughs] But yeah.
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]