NYC has been gayer for longer than you realize. Then again, it’s not as gay as you’d expect. We cover George Chauncey, Liza Minnelli, Greenwich Village, sip-ins, and myths about gay New York.
In this episode: News- 1:39 || Main Topic (New York City)- 17:07 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:01:20
Tickets for our 6th anniversary live show mini-tour are available NOW for NYC, Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, and Houston. Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!
On the Patreon bonus segment, Mike explains the sordid tale of how the Statue of Liberty might be a drag queen???? Get bonus segments, episodes, and lots of other great perks by joining Patreon at www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]
When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.
KYLE GETZ
The podcast that would never debase itself by basing an entire episode on promoting its live show in New York City on June 4th at 7 pm at The Spot!
MIKE JOHNSON
…in Hell’s Kitchen. We would never!
KYLE GETZ
Never! [Mike chuckles] We would never.
MIKE JOHNSON
We would never!
KYLE GETZ
We genuinely are very excited to talk about New York City, not just for our own promotional gain.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, gayishpodcast.com/live. I’m Mike Johnson!
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz! [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today…
KYLE GETZ
Today we’re gonna talk about [singing] New York.
MIKE JOHNSON
New York City?! …Get a rope, Kyle… [laughs] I love that face. When I can make you make that face, everything is amazing.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, God! I need to stop rewarding your bad behavior with… with a n- It’s not- It’s just disappointed face, maybe. [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
The beatings will continue until morale improves, just so you know.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Daddy-
KYLE GETZ
I’m excited.
MIKE JOHNSON
I gue- I don’t know. We’re gonna talk about New York City!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause, as you said…
KYLE GETZ
Mhm.
MIKE JOHNSON
…It’s just an attempt to sell more tickets.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. It’s a week and a half away.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s a week and a half away! Are you ready?
KYLE GETZ
Y…es.
MIKE JOHNSON
Are you sure?
KYLE GETZ
No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, me neither.
KYLE GETZ
We will be. We’ll get ready by the time we show up there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but first…
KYLE GETZ
But first!
MIKE JOHNSON
…here’s the news.
[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Alright, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
News the first! [laughs] Uh, there’s data that was released by the Cultural Currents Institute, the CCI, and they claim to now know which state is the most closeted.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps]
MIKE JOHNSON
Do you have a guess?
KYLE GETZ
I mean, is it Utah? With all the Morm-
MIKE JOHNSON
It is Utah!
KYLE GETZ
Oh my god! Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! I win.
MIKE JOHNSON
Congratulations. Did you already know that?
KYLE GETZ
No, I didn’t. No! [Mike laughing] I guessed! Wh- Mike! I got it right, so you think I cheated.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
Mean.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t- I don’t know how to proces- I don’t-
KYLE GETZ
It’s okay, we can move on from that moment.
MIKE JOHNSON
I celebrate your success, Kyle. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
I celebrate your success verbally and in accordance with law.
MIKE JOHNSON
They looked at Google search data from 2004 to 2023, and they tracked search terms such as “Am I gay?”, [laughs] “Am I lesbian?”, “Am I trans?”, “How to come out”, and “non-binary”. They looked at all 50 states and the District of Columbia, and Utah was number one in 3 out of those 5 terms that I just mentioned. The Republican-controlled state is home to the largest population of Mormons in the United States, has traditionally conservative social values, and apparently [chuckles] is very anxious about their sexual orientation. Um… So, the top 5 states for the search term “Am I gay?” were Utah, Iowa – where our lovely production assistant Derek is from – Indiana, West Virginia, and New Hampshire. Top 5 states for the search term “Am I lesbian?”: Utah, Connecticut, Kentucky, Washington…
KYLE GETZ
Hey!
MIKE JOHNSON
…and Colorado. Are there, like…
KYLE GETZ
We live in Washington.
MIKE JOHNSON
…tentative or unsure lesbians in Washington? I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
I guess so!
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently so.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, I won’t go through the rest of them. But what I want to know is: what do you think about that as a methodology? Do you think, like, to- It seems, to me, a bridge too far to look at those search data and then say “most closeted”, like, that it means most closeted.
KYLE GETZ
I think I like this. I mean, I think search is like very- It’s like, “What personal things-” I mean, the other thing you could look at is porn habits.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
But, like, search is like a very personal…
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god-
KYLE GETZ
…what you care about.
MIKE JOHNSON
I just got a horrible feeling in my stomach, of, like, if the universe could see my search term history… just from doing this show alone.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh! [Mike laughing] Yeah, you’d, like, be able to tell our topics every week, I think.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, yeah. So I- Yeah. I like this. I think it’s a smart tactic to use.
MIKE JOHNSON
They- The CCI explains that the data is relative, representing each term’s share of all Google searches for the region or time period being examined, and that the data does not simply reflect the reality that more people are using Google today than in 2024- or, in 2004. Don’t know how they’re corrected for that, but they claim to have. Anyway, yeah. News the second…
KYLE GETZ
…I was swallowing. So, yes, I’m prepared, actively listening to you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great! Excellent. Well, no, not excellent. This is really sad.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Saint Cloud, Florida had a Pride event that was scheduled for June the 10th and, last week, they cancelled it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah…
MIKE JOHNSON
They specifically said because of Florida legislation. They were afraid that the recent state laws passed, in the don’t-say-gay fuckface dickbag asshole DeSantis universe, might mean that their Pride festival would be illegal, that there would be harsh penalties imposed because they arguably are a venue that would permit children to view an “adult live performance” under the definitions in state law. And uh, so they just, like, canceled it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I really enjoy the comparisons that people make. Like, people will post pictures of a child at Hooters and be like… you think this is okay. Like, th- It is- There is no other reason other than “It is gay people doing this.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
When you, and other straight people, and people you’re attracted to do this, you don’t give a shit your kids are around it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, because we’re discussing perverts, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Exactly.
MIKE JOHNSON
And straight people are normal.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I would like to-
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] I don’t actually believe that, in case-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no, no, no!
MIKE JOHNSON
In case this is somebody’s first episode. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no, no that was the Mike sarcasm. Classic Mike sarcasm. I want to nominate to DeSantis as King Fuckface Dickbag Asshole.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay. Are there other nominees? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I have none.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
He is my sole- the one person I’m pushing forward.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Okay. [spitefully] …Ron.
KYLE GETZ
Ron. Ron! [Mike laughs] Fuck you, Ron.
MIKE JOHNSON
God, fuck that guy.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, apparently there are other events in Florida that have been canceled recently. Um, there was a Pride-related festival in Tampa, Port Saint Lucie, and in Lake County. So, the thing is: they sort of implied, or said, even, that this wasn’t what they were going after, that they weren’t going to use this legislation, and everybody was like “Okay, we’ll take your word for it.” And that’s so fucking stupid because clearly they wanted to silence, and destroy, and hide gay people. And it’s working, and, like, it’s fucking fascism, Kyle. That’s what it is.
KYLE GETZ
Russia’s like “We’re just doing military drills on the border! We don’t want to do anything,” and everyone’s like “No you’re fucking not.” Like, we can see with our eyes what’s happening, and you can’t pretend that it’s not. We know what you’re gonna do next. You just- It’s- We’re in- We’re still in this new world of “What you say doesn’t matter,” and “Everything can be a lie,” and you have no repercussion for it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It fuckin’ sucks.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, fuckin’ sucks. Fuck you, Florida, and everywhere else that like that is happening.
KYLE GETZ
Yes.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know, Tennessee, and Nebraska, and Texas, and you fucking name it. It’s happening.
KYLE GETZ
Yep, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Dickbag fuckface assholes.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Ron!
MIKE JOHNSON
Ron. …News the last?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright, news the last. We gotta get into this thing, Kyle. The Los Angeles Dodgers are in a world of shit now!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, so, if you’ve not been following it at all, the-
KYLE GETZ
The Dodgers played baseball.
MIKE JOHNSON
The LA Dodgers played baseball, and they have an annual Pride night, and they- It’s a rather popular Pride night, being in the Los Angeles area. There’s a lot of fuckin’ gays there.
KYLE GETZ
Mhm. I have data on that, coming up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Excellent. Um, and they announced recently that they were going to be honoring the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence with their Community Heroes Award.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t know that part of it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. So, when it was announced that they would be the recipients for all of the work that they do… And they do amazing work, in especially raising money for HIV/AIDS research and treatment and evangelizing things like PrEP. They just are really amazing. And if you’ve never seen them before or don’t know who they are, like, if you see a kabuki-faced bearded nun with a glitter beard, that’s more likely than not a Sister of Perpetual Indulgence.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, more on them later. But uh, so then a campaign started… not in California. [chuckles] The- Let’s see… what was the name of that? Catholic Vote started a call-in campaign saying that, quote, “The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are an anti-Catholic hate group which exists to desecrate and degrade the Catholic faith,” the idea being “You’re making fun of nuns by dressing up like women, you disgusting drag queens.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. When, actually, they’re raising money for charities and in the community and, like, doing more charity work than some actual Christians.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Again, this is more, quote, “For a revered, all-American institution like the Dodgers to bring the [Sisters] into the mainstream and honor them is reprehensible.” He went on and accused the Sisters of, quote, “taunting the women religious who serve the poor in Southern California and around the world.” Now, Sister Unity, who’s a founding member of the Los Angeles order, who was one of the people being honored at Dodger Stadium, she said, quote, “We are not anti-Catholic,” “Being anti-Catholic would be anti-people, and that’s not what we do.” Now, I don’t know if the Los Angeles Dodgers has a single fuckin’ gay person on their staff, because they announced last week that they were disinviting the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, not giving them this award, and they were no longer going to be part of the lineup for Pride night.
KYLE GETZ
That’s even bigger, knowing- I did not realize the award part. To, like, not only be like “Oh, you’re no longer invited,” but also “We were going to honor you with a community award that you earned from all the good work you do…” To go from that, to be like “Oh, no, you no longer get this award…” Like, they rec- They were goin- They thought they were great a second ago!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, yep. Yep, yep, yep. So, Senator Marco Rubio got involved. See? He could be another nominee…
KYLE GETZ
A second nominee!
MIKE JOHNSON
…for King Dickbag Fuckfaced Asshole. Also from Florida.
KYLE GETZ
Rubio… Ron. Hmm.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hmm. Ron Rubio?
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] I’m just noticing a pattern.
MIKE JOHNSON
Umm… He said, quote, “Do you believe that the Los Angeles Dodgers are being ‘inclusive and welcoming to everyone’ by giving an award to a group of gay and transgender drag performers that intentionally mocks and degrades Christians[?]” Thing is, you don’t fucking know. You don’t fucking understand. And the LA Dodgers fucking caved to this, like, brouhaha. So, then, the American Civil Liberties Union blasted the Dodgers on Twitter, saying that they would pull out of Pride Night if the club did not reverse course. LA County Supervisor Lindsey Horvath vowed to do the same. LA City Council Member Eunisses Hernandez, whose district includes Dodger Stadium, condemned the move. And then, on Thursday, the LA LGBT Center issued an ultimatum: readmit the Sisters or cancel Pride Night altogether. The Dodgers organization did not respond as quickly as they would have liked, so then the LA LGBT Center tweeted… on Friday night- no, Thursday night, this: “As a longstanding partner of the [LA] Dodgers, we are very disappointed in their decision to rescind their invitation to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to be honored at the 10th annual LGBTQ+ Pride Night. As a result and in solidarity with our community, LA Pride will not be participating in this year’s Dodgers Pride [Event Night]…” “…Pride Night event.” “Pride is a fight for equality and inclusion for the entire LGBTQ+ community and we’re not going to stop now. Let’s make this year’s Pride celebration louder than ever.” I think that’s fucking magical.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, of course, now there’re all of these conversations about, like, “All they really wanted was our money, and our ticket sales, and for us to buy a bunch of beer at the game. They don’t actually give a fuck about gay rights because, if they did, they would know that this is not a good look…” [chuckles] “…and not a good move.”
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s the year- Like, I’m coming around a little bit on the value of corporate Pride. I think, like, someone mentioned, like, I live in a small city and when Target puts up its fucking rainbow gear it makes me happy, because I get to see it for the first time. So if they’re doing it for money, okay, but also, I get to see it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep. Um- God, what’s her name?
KYLE GETZ
Rachael?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes.
KYLE GETZ
From the, uh, Queer Jews episode?
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yes. So I’m like “Okay, there is value in doing it,” but also, I think- I love this because it’s- It’s not just do that, and get our money. Like, let’s hold you accountable. And, especially right now, you have to include trans people, you have to include drag queens, that part is not negotiable.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
You don’t get to include part of our community and we- Because we are the more gay- Being gay white men, we are more accepted in the community, and we have to say “No, this won’t- We will not participate in this if you don’t include trans people.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep, absolutely. Also, I just want to point out, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence do not consider themselves drag queens. Labeling them as drag queens is just flat fuckin’ wrong. And- Oh, God, where’d the-
KYLE GETZ
It does fall under this, like, attack on anyone doing anything gender-nonconforming these days.
MIKE JOHNSON
But apparently, like, it’s fine to, like- Everybody- Fuckin’ straight people loved Tootsie and fucking loved Mrs. Doubtfire, but apparently a dude with a beard dresses up like a nun and, like, raises money for AIDS and they’re the problem.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fuck you.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
You fuckin’ dickbag asshole fuckfaces. Kyle, God dammit, now I’m pissed off! I’m so fucking pissed off I’m not even going to enjoy the rest of this episode.
KYLE GETZ
Ah, just do this episode angry.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, nah, I’m over it now. I’m good now. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Okay. I wrote down- Our nominees for dickbag fuckface assholes are: Ron…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
…Rubio, and America. [chuckles] [Mike laughs] Those are the three we got so far, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Amerigo Vespucci?
KYLE GETZ
Yes! [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, I’m very interested to see where this goes because the campaign to get them to reverse that decision is escalating and it is this weird mixture of things that I just am fascinated by. What do you think is gonna happen? Are they gonna- Will the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence appear at next week’s Pride Night event?
KYLE GETZ
I’m gonna be surprisingly optimistic for me. I’m gonna say “Yes, they’re gonna reverse their decision.” They’re gonna invite them and be like “Whoopsies!” because they want to do a Pride Night. What do you think?
MIKE JOHNSON
I think- I- I don’t know. I’m on the fence.
KYLE GETZ
You have to decide, yes or no. What do you say?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I’m gonna- I’m gonna say “No.” I think, when you’ve made a decision like that, you have to double down, and you risk alienating your non-queer audience.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Which is their- [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Which is…
KYLE GETZ
I.e. their audience.
MIKE JOHNSON
…most of the audience. So I-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. I could see that.
MIKE JOHNSON
We’ll see. We’ll see.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, we’ll see.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s the news!
KYLE GETZ
That’s the news! Speaking of people we’ll see about… [both chuckle] we’ll see how we feel about these people. No, that’s mean. I support and love these new Patreon members. First, Kobie Gordon. “Kobie” is spelled with a K. I feel like that would be important to Kobie.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Kobe”?
KYLE GETZ
Yep.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like “Kobe Bryant” or “Kobe beef”?
KYLE GETZ
K-O-B-I-E.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ohhh.
KYLE GETZ
No, sorry, Ko-bee-ee-ay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ko-bee-ay. That’s-
KYLE GETZ
Um-
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, Gordon Myhr…
MIKE JOHNSON
“Gordon Meyer”?
KYLE GETZ
Bryan- What did I say?
MIKE JOHNSON
Sounds like an author, or a famous chef, or something.
KYLE GETZ
I was reading the wrong thing. Brian Myhr… [saying it like “my-ERR”] Myhr? [like “murr”] Meyer. Myhr. [like “ma-HUR”] Maheer.
MIKE JOHNSON
Marr?
KYLE GETZ
Maybe!
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Hi Bryan! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Uh… Naresule? [like “nar-ESS-ewl”] …Naresule? No, there’s an accent. Naresule. [like “nar-ESS-ewl-ay”]
MIKE JOHNSON
Nailed it.
KYLE GETZ
Doing so good. …And Brad Shreve. [Mike laughs] And I know we’ve had him on. Uh, listen to Brad Shreve’s Spotlight. But, uh, thanks, Brad. I got at least one name right this week. Thank you so much to all our new Patreon members. If you want to get episodes a day early and ad free, they come out every Wednesday for Patreon members. And then, also, at different levels you get bonus episodes, content, merch, good shit. Go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
And half off your live show tickets, that you’re gonna buy right now, you fucker. And if you don’t want to be number 4 on our list of dickbag fuckface asshole nominees, buy your tickets now. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Yes, absolutely.
MIKE JOHNSON
Gayishpodcast.com/live.
KYLE GETZ
Do you wanna talk about New York?
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s talk about New York City, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Why did you say it with a bit of… sigh in your voice?
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, partially, it’s because we are going to be live in New York City at The Spot, in Hell’s Kitchen, next weekend.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Well, weekend after next. In like 8 days after this posts, or whatever. I didn’t realize until right this very second talking to you about it, we might shit on New York and fuck something up real bad and be… hated.
KYLE GETZ
And then show up and be like “Hey…”
MIKE JOHNSON
And then [laughs] show up and say “Here we are!”
KYLE GETZ
Well, it’s better than, like- At least we’re not doing it in front of them. Like, that’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, that’s true.
KYLE GETZ
That’s my, like- To sit in front of people- I’m gonna try to talk about- We know our topic, we’re not gonna reveal it, per usual.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah, I almost just said it. God, keep me under control, Kyle. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Keep that shit in. Keep it cool. Um, but I’m gonna talk about shit that happened in New York, and New York people might be like “I know New York more than you.” So I don’t know, I’m glad at least we’re doing it a couple episodes [chuckles] out before our show. [Mike chuckles] Um, so I’m gonna start…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Why don’t you start, Kyle?
KYLE GETZ
…by telling you about how gay New York is.
MIKE JOHNSON
How gay is New York?
KYLE GETZ
“How gay is New York?” That was the question I asked myself late one night-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-as I was prepping for this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And-
MIKE JOHNSON
Did you make up some answers?
KYLE GETZ
And [Mike laughs] I just guessed that- Sure. My answer was 7.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
It’s 7 gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
7 gays.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. [Mike chuckles] Umm, no, I actually looked at data. The Williams Institute, which I mentioned before, and I actually looked up-
MIKE JOHNSON
Serena?
KYLE GETZ
Serena Williams’ Institute that studies New York. [Mike laughs] It’s a really weird system she has set up.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Venus loves LA. I don’t know. Coast v. Coast. No. Uh, Williams Institute is a public policy research institute based in the UCLA School of Law, focused on sexual orientation and gender identity issues. They’re ones that always show up with great data. So they’re, like, a reputable source.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So, they released a brief called “LGBT Adults in Large US Metropolitan Areas” in March 2021. Their data was collected from 2012 to 2017, and they used data from the Gallup Daily Tracking survey where people would ask about people’s identities. And so, this is, in that survey, how many people – and then they figured out the math, percentage of people – that identify as gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. Okay!
KYLE GETZ
Or, LGBT. Sorry. Um, so I have it based on pure, like, number of people and percentage of gays.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, number 1 gayest city in terms of size, actual si- the raaaaw size…
MIKE JOHNSON
Raw. New York City.
KYLE GETZ
…New York City.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because it’s, like, the biggest city in the United States by such a wide margin, any, like, normal statistical thing… it’s gonna be the most.
KYLE GETZ
It’s gonna be New York for sure. For sure. And these are also metro areas, so this includes New York, Newark, Jersey City… like, that broader metro area.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
All of these are the bigger metro area. So yep, New York. And yeah, it is- They estimate 700,000 gays there. LGBT people. I keep saying “gays” instead.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s fine. Um, and the next one is…
MIKE JOHNSON
Los Angeles?
KYLE GETZ
Yep! LA is number 2. So, New York Ci-
MIKE JOHNSON
We see you, LA!
KYLE GETZ
Hey, you’re there too.
MIKE JOHNSON
How many of you could fit into Dodger Stadium? [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
All 520,000 of you? So New York’s 700, LA 520,000. That is quite a bit.
MIKE JOHNSON
Creepin’ up there, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
But, like, you’re right that New York is, like, far and away. So, by one measure, it’s the gayest place. Um, just going down the list, do you have guesses for 3, 4, and 5?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, Chicago-
KYLE GETZ
That’s 3.
MIKE JOHNSON
-Houston… Um…
KYLE GETZ
No Houston.
MIKE JOHNSON
Or Dallas? No. I don’t know. Oh, Atlanta! I said- I thought maybe Atlanta.
KYLE GETZ
No Atlanta. Um, 3 in Chicago, 4 is San Francisco, and 5 is Miami.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh yeah. Fucking San Francisco.
KYLE GETZ
Fuckin’ San Francisco. I looked at where Houston was because that’s where I’m from. That is number 11.
MIKE JOHNSON
You basically just named our tour stops. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
I did. Yep. And number 12 is Seattle.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s here.
KYLE GETZ
That’s where we live.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s- Yes.
KYLE GETZ
Which is why I threw that in. Okay, so by percentage though, this, I think, is the more accurate way to look at things, the percentage. It’s not just about volume of gays, [chuckles] it’s about the proportion of them. Um, and the highest, number 1 based on percentage, is…
MIKE JOHNSON
Salt Lake City, Utah!
KYLE GETZ
No…
MIKE JOHNSON
I’ve heard that before though.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, really?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I don’t know if it’s true.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Apparently it’s not true!
KYLE GETZ
Well, according to this one at least, number 1 is San Francisco-
MIKE JOHNSON
Aww!
KYLE GETZ
-with 6.7%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Why you gotta be a stereotype of yourself, San Francisco? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
San Francisco is one of two cities that shows up in the top 5 list for both of these.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So, San Francisco is pretty fuckin’ gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, number 2 is Portland. Number 3-
MIKE JOHNSON
Portland, Oregon?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, I presumed.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
It has to be.
MIKE JOHNSON
Because there’s two of ‘em.
KYLE GETZ
There is. It’s not gonna be the other one.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
There’s no way.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s in Maine.
KYLE GETZ
It’s not gonna be that.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Okay, great.
KYLE GETZ
There’s- [chuckles] There’s no way it’s that one.
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, I’ve been to Portland. I get it.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. That one’s super-duper gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, Austin is number 3.
MIKE JOHNSON
No… Alright, alright. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I’m reading you the data, Mike. You can’t say “No,” to data.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that Austin- I believe that, actually, for the same reason that I keep saying “Atlanta” over and over again, is it has a reputation as being, like, where all of the fun people in Texas go to get away from the rest of Texas.
KYLE GETZ
Yyyes, yes, absolutely. That’s, like- I keep saying, like, if I ever move back to Texas, that’s the one place I would be comfortable living.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
That’s the only place I’d be comfortable living.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Great.
KYLE GETZ
Number 4 is Seattle!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yay!
KYLE GETZ
That’s us.
MIKE JOHNSON
That checks out. I mean, it’s- It’s 100%, in this room. [both laugh]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, they didn’t narrow it down to just this studio where we’re recording, [Mike laughs] otherwise we would have been number 1 at 100% gays. Um, and number 5 is LA.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, okay.
KYLE GETZ
So, nowhere on that list did New York appear.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So, New York is number 21-
MIKE JOHNSON
Wwwwow.
KYLE GETZ
-on the list, with 4.5%.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is it all of the, like, finance bros? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
That’s what- I was thinking, like- Like Austin, you were saying, like… queer people, and fun people, are like “I should move there,” whereas New York, like, a lot of people are like “I want to move to New York.” So I wondered if that was- it has a bigger- I mean, San Francisco, that’s like “Oh, I can deffo be gay there,” you know?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, Portland is like-
MIKE JOHNSON
In the immortal words of Liza Minnelli, “If I can make it there, [I can] make it anywhere.”
KYLE GETZ
Sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
I also don’t think that she’s the one that wrote that song. She just…
KYLE GETZ
Oh. She just sang it?
MIKE JOHNSON
…sang it. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
I always hate when you- like, we give characters on TV show the credit. Like, no, a writer wrote that. You don’t know which-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, anyway, so-
MIKE JOHNSON
Start spreadin’ the news.
KYLE GETZ
Start spreading your legs. Um, [Mike chuckles] New York is number 1 gay or number 21 gay. So, I mean, percentagewise, not as gay as I thought.
MIKE JOHNSON
Get your shit together, New York! No, I- [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, get- No, no, no, you’re right. Double the people need to come out. No, not double, but at least- We need to increase conversion therapy, and by that I mean converting people to gay. [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god, Kyle, before somebody flips the fuck out at us in the hate mail section…!
KYLE GETZ
Oh, sure.
MIKE JOHNSON
…It was Liza Minnelli!
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
The theme from New York, New York is the theme song from the Martin Scorsese film “New York, New York” 1977.
KYLE GETZ
Uh-huh.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was written for and performed in the film by Liza Minnelli!
KYLE GETZ
Oh, no way!
MIKE JOHNSON
I thought-
KYLE GETZ
Oh, good for her!
MIKE JOHNSON
‘Cause Sinatra also had a hit with it, didn’t he? Yeah, in ’79 Sinatra recorded it but- and it became associated with him, but he stole it from Liza Minnelli. Good thing he’s dead. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Fuck you, dead guy!
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright. Anyway, [Kyle chuckles] you know what song I’m talking about, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, I didn’t-
MIKE JOHNSON
I think that’s one of those songs like every fuckin’ person in the world knows it, or, better.
KYLE GETZ
Yes. Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay, great. Umm, I’m gonna talk to you about the history of gay people in New York, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Wow, I’m gonna buckle in and shut the fuck up. This is gonna be long.
MIKE JOHNSON
Alright… Thank you. Um, I- [laughs] So I have, in the Gayish library, this book, and I’m so fucking excited to read the rest of it, but this book is “Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World” by George Chauncey.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I’m glad you physically picked it up and showed it to me. That helps, on this podcast.
MIKE JOHNSON
I can’t help it, Kyle. [Kyle chuckles] I would do this if the microphone weren’t here.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So I’m trying to be me.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know.
KYLE GETZ
Eh, have you tried being better? [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
This book was written in 1994, so it is almost 30 years old.
KYLE GETZ
Woooow.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it is a treasure trove of a bunch of shit about gay culture, not just in New York but in general, that I’m just- I’m fascinated. I’m gonna read the whole thing. I almost didn’t get the news done today because I was reading this book instead of- Anyway, fucking love it. I’m gonna start with a quote. Quote- And this is not- It’s in Chauncey book but it’s not Chaun- It’s not a quote of him, it’s a quote in the book.
KYLE GETZ
Okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. Here we go. Quote, “These men… act effeminately; most of them are painted and powdered; they are called Princess this and Lady So and So and the Dutchess of Marlboro, and get up and sing as women, and dance; ape the female character; call each other sisters and take people out for immoral purposes. I have had these propositions made to me, and made repeatedly.” That was a visitor who- Sorry, that was an investigator visiting Columbia Hall, also known as “Paresis Hall”, at 5th and Bowery in New York City in what year?
KYLE GETZ
Uh, uh, 1965.
MIKE JOHNSON
1899.
KYLE GETZ
Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, Columbia Hall, or Paresis Hall, was known as, quote, “The principal resort in New York for degenerates,” and-
KYLE GETZ
That would sh- I did a little bit of- I’ll tell you a little bit of history too, but “degenerates” showed up a lot.
MIKE JOHNSON
A loooot, yeah. Yeah. Also, I was very surprised at how early the word “fairy” was associated with gay men specifically in New York City.
KYLE GETZ
Oh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, but the thing is, 1899, there was, like… “That’s a known place for the gays.” Like, an entire fucking hall, an entire neighborhood. And that bucks a whole bunch of things that we think about Stonewall, which, I’m gonna talk about Stonewall later. Um, but it’s funny, in the 1870s there was a guide for Latin American businessman and it was published, uh, that showed different kinds of people that you’d run across in SoHo. Specifically, there’s a cartoon that I’ll show you and then we’ll post it to social media or whatever. And uh, it shows a dude at the intersection of Broadway and Houston and includes, in the upper right hand corner, a fairy. [Kyle chuckles] He’s wearing a tiny-ass hat, he’s delicately holding a cane, has a very distinctive limp wrist.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, look at that wrist, it’s so fucking gay.
MIKE JOHNSON
But the thing is… that was a fairy, and that’s what they were called in 1870.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s a brochure, like, showing Latin American businessman what to look out for in that neighborhood, Broadway and Houston Street.
KYLE GETZ
“Look at that faggot.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Right.
KYLE GETZ
I’m reminded of the phrase “I would dial the-” “Would he dial a phone with a pencil?” [chuckles]
MIKE JOHNSON
“Dial a phone with a pencil,” yes.
KYLE GETZ
That wrist would definitely use a pencil to dial a phone.
MIKE JOHNSON
Absolutely. It’s really interesting to me, I think, that the idea that gay is a new thing, that we sprung out of the ground at Stonewall and didn’t exist- And we’ve talked about that on the show a bajillion times, but nowhere is that more apparent and obvious than in New York City. Some of that is just a function of the size of the city, like we were saying earlier talking about statistics. Like, get any city of sufficient size and that’s where the shit happens, and that’s absolutely true when it comes to gay culture. So, the gayborhood, the original gayborhood in New York City, was- is a place called “Bowery”, and that has largely not- It’s the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and they don’t really call it that anymore, although there is Bowery Street. It’s “the Lower East Side”, is what it gets called, apparently. If I’m wrong, @ me. I would like to know. And then- But by the 1920s there were 3 gay villages in New York City. There was The Village – Greenwich Village – there was Harlem, and Time Square. All 3 were considered havens for homosexuals. There were bars that catered to them, they had these big balls for entering gay society. And I’m gonna talk more in the section about Stonewall about, like, myths about what life was like before Stonewall. But, uh, it’s- It’s, uh- There’s this huge history of pretty- what we would consider normal gay life, way fuckin’ back in the day. Right? 1870s, 1880s, 1890s, all happening there in New York City. And there’s a bunch of theories about, like, what happened with all of that history because it has been sort of erased. And he points out, George Chauncey points out, that really it was prohibition that really associated drinking culture with gay people as being, like, a thing that we need to stop them from hanging out. That’s when you see all of these laws start to pop up about “You can’t have gay bars.” That allows the mafia to then take over and start serving gay people to- They wanted our money. The Great Depression also had a big impact, but then also the Lavender Scare. So World War II ends, a bunch of gays come back from being in the military, settle in a few places, New York City and San Francisco being two really big examples of that, and then there is a backlash against that that leads to McCarthyism and the Lavender Scare in the 50s, and that really demonizes gay people and they become more explicitly the target of legal action and things like raids and, like, ruining people’s lives, etc. But New York City really was the sort of battleground for that. Yeah, any- I think I’ll pause there, I guess. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah! Um, so you talked about one of the battlegrounds, like, in New York, being bars. So I’m gonna talk about a really specific example of that… uh, a protest, coming up, and that’s the gay sip-ins that happened in New York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sip-ins!
KYLE GETZ
Sip-ins. Um… that pulls from the Civil Rights Movement-
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
-using inspiration from that to protest. So, most of this is from a history.com article by Thaddeus Morgan, came out in 2018. The subtitle for the article is: “In 1966, three men walked into a bar, stated they were gay and ordered drinks. When they were denied service, a movement began.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow. Okay.
KYLE GETZ
And so, if this hadn’t happened, Stonewall might not have happened.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
And I’ll get there. So, like you said, gays were regularly refused service at bars. The New York State Liquor Authority based service requirements on what was called “orderly conduct”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And gays- Being gay was considered “disorderly conduct”. So if you-
MIKE JOHNSON
God, that’s such a tool- Like, a tool that gets used by oppressors all the time is just label something- Again, like, say that it’s “decency”, or say that it’s “normalcy”, or say that it’s… whatever vague fucking word you want to use, and then you can totally discriminate against people on the basis of torturing that word to mean whatever you want it to mean.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. See the news section that you just did.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, so-
MIKE JOHNSON
Dickbag fuckface assholes.
KYLE GETZ
Right?
MIKE JOHNSON
I told you I was gonna be mad the whole episode. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. See? Number 1, Ron.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ron.
KYLE GETZ
So- And that could include even just- I wrote it down. Intimate encounters between two men was considered “disorderly”. Anything that made you look gay, basically.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
This is partially because a lot of the things that you talked about with prohibition and there was also, specifically in New York, Mayor Robert F. Wagner Jr. We hate him. The World’s Fair was in 1964 so he wanted to clean up New York City for the visitors, and that meant getting rid of gays, shutting down gay establishments-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-increasing the police raids on gay bars… And so the sip-in was spring of 1966, and the members that- There were three people: Dick… Of course one of the first guys that did a sip-in was named “Dick”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, Dick Lick…? no, “Leitsch”… [Mike chuckles] was the leader of the New York chapter of the Mattachine Society.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great. We know them.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, yep, yep. Uh, and two other members, which, in the history.com article, it said that was Craig Rodwell… Rodwell.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oo, my god.
KYLE GETZ
Jesus Christ, Craig. Um, and Randy Wicker. Wikipedia said Craig Rodwell and John Timmons.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm.
KYLE GETZ
I guess I believe history.com as a more reputable source? So I don’t know. But it’s weird that, like… a thing happened, it was a person, it was one person, it was one of them-
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
-but it’s written down as two different people. Like, how do we not- I don’t know.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Anyway, they drew from the civil rights movement. So they went into- They went bar to bar looking for a place that would deny them service.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
So, the first one-
MIKE JOHNSON
Good work. Good work, gays.
KYLE GETZ
Yep. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [Mike chuckles] …Because they wanted to specifically challenge this rule. So they went to one bar that, when reporters showed up, the bar closed down.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckling] Or maybe it was just an excuse to get fucked up. [Kyle laughs] Like, it’s a bar crawl, y’all.
KYLE GETZ
“Gimme shots!” [Mike laughs] Yeah, they did three shots at each bar and were like- [chuckles] Yeah, it was Craig Rodwell’s birthday. [Mike laughs] It wasn’t really real, yeah. No, so the first one, when they saw reporters, closed down. They just- Instead of not serving them they just closed. Uh, the next two served them.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Even though they said they were gay.
KYLE GETZ
Um, the third one was Julius’ which was apparently a sure bet to get rejected because just a few days earlier it had been raided, so they were on particularly high alert. Apparently there is a sign in the window. Like, they showed signs in windows, I guess, when this happened. “This is a raided premises,” is what it said.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow.
KYLE GETZ
And it says the NYPD, like- I don’t know. Maybe th- I didn’t read about that. Maybe they just, like, fuckin’ hung signs up after they raided it?
MIKE JOHNSON
So- Okay, more evidence this was just a birthday party bar crawl then, ‘cause, like, you should have started there.
KYLE GETZ
That’s true. [Mike chuckles] I don’t know- Yeah, I don’t know why- I don’t know their thinking process. They were like “We want to get fucked up before we do this thing.” [Mike laughs] Yeah. I don’t know. Apparently the- Um, Julius’ has been raided- Julius’ was raided and a clergyman was arrested for soliciting sex. That’s what I wrote down. Who knows what’s actually true. Maybe they- You can invent charges when you raid shit, so…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
After they were denied service, that’s when the news covers. The New York Times and The Village Voice, which, Village Voice is like the prominent gay newspaper, like maybe historically the most famous gay newspaper of all time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Although, apparently they’re not doing it anymore.
KYLE GETZ
I heard that. Yeah, I thought it- Yeah. Anyway, The New York Times- The headline for the article was “3 DEVIATES INVITE EXCLUSION BY BARS”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Sure.
KYLE GETZ
Feels a little judgy, [chuckles] If I have to pinpoint one piece of criticism. Feels a little judgy.
MIKE JOHNSON
“Deviants”.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. “Deviates”.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, “deviates”.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is that a word?
KYLE GETZ
I- You know, New York Times… Probably, at that time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Probably, yeah. Okay. Alright.
KYLE GETZ
Um, the Commission on Human Rights got involved, they maybe went to court? I wasn’t clear on that part. But the State Liquor Authority, as a result of this, decided that they no longer viewed being gay as “disorderly”. And, apparently, there was an immediate change after that. Like, spring of ‘66, all of a sudden, things changed for gay people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Huh.
KYLE GETZ
There were less police raids-
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s before Stonewall.
KYLE GETZ
That’s before Stonewall.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Alright, go ahead.
KYLE GETZ
Yes, and that’s part of why. So, as a result of this, and quite immediately, things got better for them. There were less police raids, bars were less likely to lose their license for serving gay people, and, because of that progress that gay people made during ‘66, they started then to expect that progress.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm.
KYLE GETZ
If they were still in the times where they were getting raided all the time, maybe Stonewall wouldn’t have stood out as much but, because they had made this forward progress, then when Stonewall happened they were like “Fuck you, no. We’re not going- We’re not doing this.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And there are a lot of other… things that happened that caused Stonewall to happen. Um, but this is one of those contributing factors. Gay people were fuckin’ over it.
MIKE JOHNSON
It reminds me of all these companies that are trying to force their workers back into the office.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh.
MIKE JOHNSON
Like, the pandemic, I worked from home and it was fine. Fuck you!
KYLE GETZ
“You know how you were okay with me working from home when it was your only option? Look, I can keep doing it.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, nowadays, Julius’… [chuckles] Julius’ claims- its website claims that it’s New York’s oldest gay bar and Greenwich Village is oldest bar. And, it holds a monthly party called “Mattachine”. So, when I went to the website, it had, like, the promotion for the Mattachine event.
MIKE JOHNSON
Is it gonna be happening when we’re in town?
KYLE GETZ
That’s a great question, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
We should go.
KYLE GETZ
We should go, if it’s happening.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. We should also run down to Christopher Street and go to the Stonewall Inn, even though-
KYLE GETZ
We should-
MIKE JOHNSON
-I asked them if we could do our show there and they did not respond to me.
KYLE GETZ
Mmm. They were busy rioting.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Exactly.
KYLE GETZ
Um, no, we sh- I have not been to Stonewall. We should definitely go there while we’re there.
MIKE JOHNSON
I went there with my ex. It was neat. It felt historic… ‘cause it is.
KYLE GETZ
It should be. [Mike laughs] Yeah, it should have! That’s it. That’s- [chuckles] Yeah. So those are the sip-ins.
MIKE JOHNSON
Awesome!
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Thanks for- Thanks for [chuckling] that birthday party pub crawl that turned into a riot.
KYLE GETZ
…That turned litigious? [chuckles] Like most good booze crawls.
MIKE JOHNSON
So, you talk about that leading up to Stonewall, and this book by Chauncey… he… he has a lot of things to say about the myths of gay stuff before Stonewall. And he wants to explore a little bit, like, where this narrative, this idea – it’s not even a narrative, just this idea – comes from, that, like, we didn’t exist before Stonewall.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And he touches on three myths. Oh, I wrote in my notes “We think of Stonewall as being the start, but for New York it’s barely the middle.”
KYLE GETZ
Huh. Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, so the first is the myth of isolation, which he says is the myth that we have that anti-gay hostility – again, before Stonewall – anti-gay hostility prevented the development of an extensive gay subculture and forced gay men to lead solitary lives. This myth is basically “Gay men weren’t gathering together, so there was no ‘there’ there for developing culture,” and that’s absolutely not true. Like I said before, Bowery, and by the 1920s Greenwich Village, Harlem, Times Square… there were, in New York, big pockets of gays hanging out altogether. They had a culture, they had their own manner of dress and way of speaking, and a lot of that has been lost for reasons that I’m gonna go into in a little bit. But, like, that’s just not true. So if you have it in your head that, like, gay history doesn’t exist because we didn’t have community… we absolutely did in several places in New York City. Also, talking about, like, the different ways that they talked, “coming out” did not mean out of the closet. That’s a relatively new connotation of it. In New York slang in the 20s, it was about code-switching more than anything. Um, you would “come out” into gay society at a big ball. They would throw these big dances, and rent ballrooms, and they would have these ceremonies and, like, there were even certificates that I saw. There’s a certificate in here of, like, “Welcome to the gay world.”
KYLE GETZ
Aww.
MIKE JOHNSON
And like a graduation diploma for coming out.
KYLE GETZ
That’s cute!
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Why don’t we have those today?
MIKE JOHNSON
We absolutely should, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
But yeah, apparently in the 1930s it was totally a thing. But they didn’t say “come out of the closet”, they said “come out into society”. But one thing that they did say about, like, your status of outness was this whole thing about, again, code-switching. So you would “wear your hair up”, that’s what they would say, and that meant to like butch it up and be straight so that you could pass in straight society. And then you would “Let your hair down,” and that’s sort of- We know that phrase for other reasons but, to gays in New York in the 20s, that meant to let yourself be as gay as you want to. And then-
KYLE GETZ
You’re right, that is code-switching. That’s crazy that we just talked about that.
MIKE JOHNSON
And also slang in 20s gay New York was – to signal to other men that you were gay in public – was to drop hairpins. So, you would say, like, “Kyle, I was on the bus the other day and I was totally dropping hairpins,” and that was hair up, hair down. “Dropping hairpins” was to subtly hint to somebody that you are gay.
KYLE GETZ
Interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, anyway, so that’s the myth of isolation. The second is the myth of invisibility, and that’s the idea that even if a gay world did exist, it was kept invisible and thus remained difficult for isolated gay men to find. Not true in New York. Gay men were out and visible, they were known in the newspapers for wearing red ties and having bleached hair. And-
KYLE GETZ
Wow, bleached as a gay stereotype existed long before it did these modern times.
MIKE JOHNSON
That was around, uh, 1918.
KYLE GETZ
Damn.
MIKE JOHNSON
And, in fact, one New Yorker said in an interview in the New York Times in 1918, quote, “Our streets and beaches are overrun by . . . fairies.” [Kyle chuckles] We were not invisible, at least not in New York. That’s just a myth.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, I think of- Visibility then creates a backlash, which then creates our push for rights. Like, that’s the myth that I believe, that is not true. That’s interesting that that is not the process that it went through.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Last is the myth of internalization, this is the “internalized homophobia” internalization. The myth of internalization is that gay men – this is a quote – “Gay men uncritically internalize the dominant cultures view of them as sick, perverted, and immoral, and that their self-hatred led them to accept the policing of their lives rather than resist it?” At least in New York, absolutely untrue. As early as the 1890s, there were gay New Yorkers who wrote articles and books, sent letters to The New York Times, published their own newspapers in the gayborhoods, and urged jurists and doctors to change their views. They were actively fighting against the systems of oppression that were in place in those communities. And, just, the idea that gays just felt bad and hid in their shame… absolutely not true, at least not in New York, again as early as 1890-something.
KYLE GETZ
1890, wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah. So New York was just, like… is, has been, always will be for a long-ass time… gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] If you want to hear more about shame, listen to our bonus Patreon episode about shame where we talk about internalized homophobia.
MIKE JOHNSON
He also goes into this whole thing about that there’s this narrative that we especially fight against today – and we’ve talked about it a lot on the show – that gay culture is white middle class culture. Right? And the narrative, the theory, the myth, is that that is the only group that has the resources to make it happen. That- The idea is that, like, poor people are too busy working too hard to, like, go out and get fucked up and do coke or what- I don’t know. [Kyle chuckles] It kind of makes sense though, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
That, like- And, largely, that is our view… Not in New York, not historically speaking. But a lot of this history has been lost because that’s what we look for. We look for middle class white gay culture which, in New York, didn’t really exist. A lot of this was working class, it was African American folks, it was Italian and Irish folks which were very much discriminated against in the time periods that we’re talking about because of the backlash against huge swathes of immigration that were happening. But uh, research up until he published this book was focused on The New York Times articles and mainstream white middle class sources instead of- He found a whole bunch of stuff in African American press, especially for the Harlem gayborhood tabloids. It was looking more at working class culture and looking at pop culture instead of just, like, medical and legal documents. And he points out there’s a reason that all of these gayborhoods that existed in New York in the 1890s, 1920s, those were all also historically black, Irish, and Italian neighborhoods, because it was not middle class whites, it was those places where gay culture could take root. And then – can’t leave this section here without pointing out – white middle class culture, even Stonewall for a long time, totally erase the involvement of trans women of color, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. There was like a actual white statue, [chuckles] a physical white statue that was placed outside, of, like, two white people or something, like, that commemorated Stonewall, instead of black people, trans people, black trans people, sex workers, like, all the people that went to Stonewall.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep, absolutely. And it’s just not true.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s just not true. That’s us whitewashing.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. It’s crazy how much- Who is telling you this story? Who is looking back on it, and where are they looking? I like that, like, “Oh, yeah, I’m gonna look at The New York Times.” Like, well there’s far more there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, absolutely. There really is. I love this book, I’m gonna read it more, and I wish I had more, like, modern things to say about New York, it’s I’ve just been so steeped in this history stuff that, uh-
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I think it’s important though to also recognize New York as being like the forefront of the HIV/AIDS crisis. And a lot of, like, television and media is produced in New York, and there’s a lot of involvement in- of gays in those industries: Broadway of course, and musicals, and other kinds of theater are this huge draw. New York is just- it’s the place, man.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m gonna talk about the Statue of Liberty for Patreon, Kyle.
KYLE GETZ
Is there- Is there a gay angle to this?
MIKE JOHNSON
A gayngle?
KYLE GETZ
A gayngle… [chuckles] as we never call it.
MIKE JOHNSON
There is a gayngle: there’s an excellent chance that the Statue of Liberty is a drag queen.
KYLE GETZ
[gasps] [half-singing to the tune of “Empire State of Mind” by Jay-Z] New York! [Mike laughs] Something, something, dreams they can knead… pizza right. Then, the last thing I want to tell you…
MIKE JOHNSON
Tell me!
KYLE GETZ
These are current New York organizations, New York-based organizations that support LGBT people.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
This list is from secretnyc.co. Couldn’t afford that “com”.
MIKE JOHNSON
The “m”, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, gimme that cum. [both chuckle] The Center is New York City’s LGBTQ community center that offers advocacy for New York health, wellness programs, arts, education, cultural programs, recovery, parenthood, families support… basically, supporting New York City’s LGBT center in any way imaginable.
MIKE JOHNSON
Awesome.
KYLE GETZ
Another local one is Audre Lorde Project, which is a community organizing for LGBT people of color in the New York City area. They work for community wellness and progressive social and economic justice. One of the ones that I’ve heard of – we actually put this on our help and resources page – is SAGE. This is a national organization, Services & Advocacy for LGBTQ Elders. [TN: Services & Advocacy for GLBT Elders] So, they- And I don’t see too many of these, so that, to me, is a really important one to know about that advocates for LGBT elders. And they have a hotline, so if you want the hotline it’s 877-360-LGBT, or 877-360-5428. Hotline if you need resources, help, whatever it is going on. That’s a support system.
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t know if I trust ‘em.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Why?
MIKE JOHNSON
They don’t know how letters work. Their name is “SAGE” but they should be ‘SALGBTE”.
KYLE GETZ
[laughs] Everything used to be-
MIKE JOHNSON
Gay.
KYLE GETZ
-Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual… and that’s- Like, you can tell an organization’s- When they still have “GLBT” it sounds weird to say these days but, like, I started an organization in my college that was the “Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender…” Like, that’s just the order we did it in.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Yep.
KYLE GETZ
So anyway, yeah. SAGE. I do not fault SAGE. I personally love our LGBT elders, unlike Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
You know.
KYLE GETZ
Um. [chuckles] The-
MIKE JOHNSON
Because I’m closer to being one, I think is- [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Well it’s kind of cool. Like, we need more resources for LGBT elders as we have more LGBT elders these days, as people are living longer, happier, healthier lives, like… and not dying of AIDS.
MIKE JOHNSON
Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, there’s this whole thing about, like, that white middle class gays sort of took over being the image of the culture because they’re the ones that had healthcare and lived.
KYLE GETZ
Ohhh, man.
MIKE JOHNSON
Um, yeah. It’s terrible.
KYLE GETZ
That’s- I mean, I can understand- I can see that. Did I write down- There’s- No. There was- Fuck. I wish I- Ugh, it would have been the smoothest transition. I didn’t include- There’s one that, like, is the biggest LGBT provider of health care in the nation or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t write the name down. I don’t know, you’ll have to find it yourself. That’s a little mystery for you to solve yourself, dear listener.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Um, there’s the Sylvia Rivera Law Project which is a legal aid organization. I’ve heard of this before and I couldn’t pinpoint it. Have you heard of…?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
A legal aid organization that serves low income people and people of color who are trans, intersex, and gender-nonconforming. This is particularly of importance these days. They provide social health and legal services. There have programs that support immigrants and prisoner’s rights. There’s a prisoner pen pal program. Another one is Immigration Equity, [TN: Immigration Equality] which is the nation’s leading LGBT and HIV-positive immigration rights organization. And it’s mostly through, like, legal and policy that they work.
MIKE JOHNSON
Isn’t Lambda Legal based in New York?
KYLE GETZ
Are they? I didn’t see them in, like, this list or whatever but that would be a good one to include if that’s true.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yes, they are based in New York.
KYLE GETZ
Ooo, they’re- Okay, they’re the, like, law- Whenever I see, like, ACLU and Lambda Legal sue for something… Like, yeah, I see them show up a lot. They do a lot of great work.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And ACT UP, which I did not realize was still going.
MIKE JOHNSON
Fight AIDS!
KYLE GETZ
Like, I just think of that as, you know, back in the 90s…
MIKE JOHNSON
Actual reality! ACT UP! Fight AIDS! That’s from Rent.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay. [Mike laughs] I was trying to make it make sense.
MIKE JOHNSON
[laughs] I took my medicine this morning, Kyle. I just want you to know that. But then I had like four cups of coffee, which I think undoes my meds.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Never take coffee right after medication. [Mike chuckles] No, I’m thinking of fiber. Is that true?
MIKE JOHNSON
I mean, if shit myself I’ll let you know. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
Please don’t. You know, I don’t think I need to know that information. ACT UP: AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power. I also did not know that was an acronym. I mean, I knew it was in all caps but I thought that was just because we were so angry. And that is an historic organization that provides direct action to end the AIDS crisis. They were formed in response to the government neglect, the lack of response in the medical community, social neglect during the AIDS crisis during the 80s and 90s in particular. So yeah, that organization still exists. So a lot of really important LGBT organizations exist to this day in New York that fight for our rights. So…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeeeaah!
KYLE GETZ
New York continues to be a beacon of hope, help, and heart.
MIKE JOHNSON
Did you just come up with that?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] Good work.
KYLE GETZ
Thanks.
MIKE JOHNSON
[chuckles] You’re welcome, New York. You can have that one for free.
KYLE GETZ
You can have that one- No.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Okay, we’re gonna talk about, like, our, like, personal experiences. You’ve been to New York.
KYLE GETZ
I’ve been to New York.
MIKE JOHNSON
You have a really good friend that lives there.
KYLE GETZ
Quite a few times, yep. Hi, Tessa. You don’t listen. Um, that’s okay. [chuckles] I actually-
MIKE JOHNSON
She’s busy.
KYLE GETZ
She’s busy, she has babies.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
At least two that I know of.
MIKE JOHNSON
Are any of them yours? [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
If they were, it would have been through a hot- one of those hot tubs sperm babies.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mm. Mhm.
KYLE GETZ
When I originally got my offer from [censor beep], I could have selected Seattle, Chicago, or New York. And I picked Seattle because my friend Tessa, who now lives in New York, was in Seattle. That was a big reason. It was like “Oh, someone I know is already gonna be there.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh-huh.
KYLE GETZ
So- And then she left me, and then moved away to New York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow.
KYLE GETZ
Jesus, Tessa, I didn’t even think about that!
MIKE JOHNSON
And then you didn’t follow her.
KYLE GETZ
I didn’t follow her. Yeah. So I had the option. I always wanted to live in New York, and there’s still part of me that… I don’t think I could do a move city thing. Like, I have my- Like, I have kind of settled here.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So there’s part of me that kind of wonders what would have happened, or what I- I don’t know. I could- My life would have been totally different if I had picked that option.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, you wouldn’t be here right now.
KYLE GETZ
No. We wouldn’t be doing this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Probably.
KYLE GETZ
Probably. I doubt it. And it was just so interesting. Like, our colleagues that worked in the New York office, they were they were, like- we made the same income and they were barely getting by.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
It was, like- It was so interesting how different the- Like, the cost is so much higher.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [chuckles] Although I think Seattle’s closing the gap.
KYLE GETZ
I think we’re workin’ on it. If rent prices are any indication, we’re tryin’. We’re trying to fill that gap with San Francisco too. We’re workin’ on it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
And I also talked about my dream of one day living in New York with my- the first guy I dated, like, really, like, long term dated.
MIKE JOHNSON
Jay-Z?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. And when we broke up he moved to New York.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aw, interesting.
KYLE GETZ
That was a- I have said before, I tend to cut off… exes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Mhm. He did that for you! [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
So there was a- There was a benefit! I’m not gonna run into him.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
I saw my latest ex…
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, did you?
KYLE GETZ
…walking down the street.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Did you duck down an alley?
KYLE GETZ
No, I just- I kind of did a weird smile and kept going.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hm. Interesting.
KYLE GETZ
Didn’t say anything.
MIKE JOHNSON
Wow, okay.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Anyway, um-
MIKE JOHNSON
Stone cold bitch! I love it.
KYLE GETZ
That’s what they call me.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah!
KYLE GETZ
That’s my wrestler name. [Mike laughs] [doing a gruff raspy voice] Stone Cold Bitch, oh yeaaah! I’ll stone you out!
MIKE JOHNSON
“Stone you out”? Is that what you said?
KYLE GETZ
It is what I said. [Mike laughs] That is correct. That is what I said. But there’s part of it that was like a ssss…
MIKE JOHNSON
Slap in the face?
KYLE GETZ
We had talked about it together. Like, he would always dream to go to New York too. And so, when he moved, I was like… [sighs] Oooh, that was a lot to- That was part of, like, trying to process moving on. Like, it was that, that he did the thing that we had talked about doing together. It was some of the things he left behind in our apartment.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like a note that I had written him that was, like, just sitting there on the counter. That was hard, but, um…
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So I have some weird mixed feelings, like, personally about New York, but I love being there and visiting there. I love big cities. Like, New York might be my favorite city in the world, and I’ve- You know, the other ones are the big cities… that I’ve been to.
MIKE JOHNSON
Have you done gay stuff in New York?
KYLE GETZ
Um-
KYLE GETZ
You haven’t been to the Stonewall but, like, have you done-
KYLE GETZ
No. I have not been to, like, gay bars and stuff.
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s fuckin’ fix that!
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Yeah, let’s fucking do that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Hell’s Kitchen.
MIKE JOHNSON
Hell’s Kitchen.
KYLE GETZ
Place to be.
MIKE JOHNSON
The baking’s and oven… somethin’.
KYLE GETZ
…Uh-huh. [both chuckle] We’re both getting some really good ones in, Mike.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god.
KYLE GETZ
“The baking something oven.”
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god. [both chuckle]
KYLE GETZ
How do you feel? What’s your personal experience with New York?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, I’ve only been a handful of times. The first time I ever went was with my ex-wife, and we saw Wicked on Broadway. And that- Those- That was the Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth days.
KYLE GETZ
Nooo.
MIKE JOHNSON
Got really great tickets too, it was amazing.
KYLE GETZ
And you were straight then.
MIKE JOHNSON
And I was straight then.
KYLE GETZ
Wow.
MIKE JOHNSON
It was magical. [Kyle chuckles] Um… let’s see… and then my ex-husband and I went.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, you covered that with [chuckles] both exes.
MIKE JOHNSON
And that’s when we went to Stonewall. And then I was just there for work in October and I also, except for going to Stonewall for that experience, haven’t done any gay stuff.
KYLE GETZ
You didn’t go… You didn’t go gay, when you went recently?
MIKE JOHNSON
No, uh-uh.
KYLE GETZ
Huh!
MIKE JOHNSON
No, I- Instead we went and sang karaoke, which is not not gay.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
But-
KYLE GETZ
It could be gayer.
MIKE JOHNSON
A bunch of straight coworkers, you know?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
So yeah, could have been gayer.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And it was such a quick trip, I was only there one night. Yeah. Anyway, I’m excited to, like- I want to gay it up this trip, and not just because we’re doing our show at The Spot in Hell’s Kitchen. [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Gayishpodcast.com/live.
MIKE JOHNSON
June 4th at 7 pm. [laughs] Get your tickets, you fuckfaces.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. It’s gonna be a lot of fun.
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s gonna be a lot of fun. But yeah, I wanna do some gay stuff while we’re there, and we’re there two nights so we should have…
KYLE GETZ
Hopefully.
MIKE JOHNSON
…opportunity.
KYLE GETZ
Unless I’m- I might just be a nervous wreck and be in the hotel the whole time because I like prepping and just being nervous.
MIKE JOHNSON
Aw.
KYLE GETZ
And taking PrEP.
MIKE JOHNSON
Great.
KYLE GETZ
Just downing PrEP after PrEP.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, well, I don’t have that problem. So I’m gonna- [both laugh] I will invite you to-
KYLE GETZ
You will be- Yes. I have the option of joining you on New York gay outing.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And we’re staying in Times Square, I think.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, cool.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah! Should we- Did we do it?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, we- I mean, we talked about New York a- Your stuff is really interesting.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh. Thanks!
KYLE GETZ
I really liked that gay New York book.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. I, like- I just love it. I’m so super excited to read about it too, because he keeps talking about, like, all of this stuff that’s, like, super important to the whole movement came out of New York.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
And so it’s like, in a way, the cradle of gayness in the United States. And- So let’s go visit there and fuck it up.
KYLE GETZ
We didn’t talk about Stonewall at all. I mean, we did a tiny bit. Should w- Eh, well, we’ve talked about it on past episodes, like at the very beginning of the show, so yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Okay. Yeah! Then we did stuff.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay. You want to take a break?
KYLE GETZ
Let’s take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Let’s take a break.
KYLE GETZ
Break!
MIKE JOHNSON
Break.
[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]
This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!
MIKE JOHNSON
So are we back?
KYLE GETZ
We’re back!
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re back!
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first, hey!
KYLE GETZ
Hey…
MIKE JOHNSON
Dirty fuckers.
KYLE GETZ
Beautiful people.
MIKE JOHNSON
I have a couple of announcements.
KYLE GETZ
Tour!
MIKE JOHNSON
The tour. We’re going on a tour, y’all. We’re gonna be in New York City next weekend.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah… if you’re listening to this in real time.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, we will be- Do you want me to read them?
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah, do it!
KYLE GETZ
We will be in New York on June 4th. It is at 7 pm at The Spot. There’s still tickets. Go to gayishpodcast.com/live for these tickets and all your tickets, but we will also be in Seattle June 23rd, that’s a free show with Derek and Romaine. Chicago on July 29th, San Francisco on August 13th, Los Angeles on September 10th, and Houston on October 15th. Go get your tickets for all of those places, except for Seattle which is free. You get a drink with your tickets, so it’s fun and great.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. It’s basically- It’s basically free, it just comes with a- Like, you’re gonna drink anyway.
KYLE GETZ
You’re gonna drink anyway [Mike laughs] so let’s just get you started, you know?
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, our website is gayishpodcast.com
KYLE GETZ
We are on Instagram @gayishpodcast, and we also have a Facebook group, a Discord, Spaces, and you can find all that info at gayishpodcast.com/contact.
MIKE JOHNSON
Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.
KYLE GETZ
Our email is gayishpodcast@gmail.com.
MIKE JOHNSON
And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109. Uh, really quickly, before we go into the Gayest & Straightest, I just wanted to do a quick shoutout to a local/not local drag event that’s happening. So, on July 1st, Saturday July 1st at 5 pm at the Snoqualmie Sno Valley Eagles, there is a drag show being put on by Calypso Frost, friend of the show, and it would be really great to support them because it’s outside of the city limits of Seattle and, like, drag is under fire everywhere, everybody, and if you want to support drag especially support it where it needs the most support.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Plus, go to a drag show, it’s fucking amazing. It’s always the best time you’ll have.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep. Doors are at 5, show is at 6. It will be a $10 cover for nonmembers, $5 for Eagles members, which, I don’t know how the Eagles in Snoqualmie, Washington rolls, but back home the Eagles Club- like, none of those people have seen a drag show before, so it’s [both chuckle] gonna be interesting. Anyway, go check them out.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, that’d be awesome.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, ready to do our Gayest & Straightest?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
I’ll go.
MIKE JOHNSON
Okay.
KYLE GETZ
My gayest is I wore some cute dress shoes for an interview and they cut up the back of my feet.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Like, they were, like, bleeding. I have scabs.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So injuring myself on cute dress shoes.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Uh, my straightest is I injured myself a different way. I dropped a piece of plywood that I was using to set up my AC in my place. So dropping that on my shin.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s not great.
KYLE GETZ
Cut myself there.
MIKE JOHNSON
Are you okay?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, I’m good.
MIKE JOHNSON
Are you sure? [laughs]
KYLE GETZ
Just, you know, hurting myself on accident and, uh, just hurting them in gay and straight ways.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
So that’s fun.
MIKE JOHNSON
Ouch.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah!
MIKE JOHNSON
I’m sorry.
KYLE GETZ
That’s okay!
MIKE JOHNSON
Ehh.
KYLE GETZ
You live and you learn, so says Ms. Morissette.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah. Gotta add that to the list.
KYLE GETZ
Gotta add that to the list. What about you?
MIKE JOHNSON
So the gayest thing about me this week: I went to CC’s to Funderwear night last night, [Kyle chuckles] which, I knew it was Funderwear night…
KYLE GETZ
I’ve not h- “Funderwear”. That’s-
MIKE JOHNSON
It’s fun underwear, Kyle. It’s “funderwear”.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah, make sense.
MIKE JOHNSON
And then, like- Okay, the gayest thing about me is this conversation that I had, which I didn’t know how to feel about at the time but it was very, very gay, and that was the dude said “Oh, you’re one of those guys that doesn’t know how hot he is,” and I didn’t know how to answer that, because if you say yes…
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] “Correct.” [both chuckle]
MIKE JOHNSON
And if you say “No,” like- I don’t- How do you- How are you supposed to respond to that? Anyway, I-
KYLE GETZ
I would reply sarcastically, because that’s how I reply to everything.
MIKE JOHNSON
That’s like the only option, really, right?
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. Try to make a joke out of it or something.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh my god.
KYLE GETZ
What did you say?
MIKE JOHNSON
I don’t remember.
KYLE GETZ
Oh, okay.
MIKE JOHNSON
I was very drunk.
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Were you in your underwear?
MIKE JOHNSON
Also- No, I didn’t. I didn’t get down in my underwear, which, maybe I should, because then that was a topic of conversation that I just- I ran into Chris Haigy, which, I always run into him at those kinds of events, and he just goes- He came around the corner because had just gotten done checking in, and he just looked at me and he goes “Every time.” [both laugh] Um, and then I, while I was there, hung out with Reverend Sister Burna Bush of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. There were a couple of them there. It was great to sort of catch up and get a little bit of inside info about this whole thing with the Dodgers.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah.
MIKE JOHNSON
Uh, the straightest thing about me this week was, after I got home – and, again, I was drunk – I took my shoes off and I rammed my pinky toe into the wall on the corner here and then I ended up, like, fucking up my toenail and I pulled my pinky toenail off-
KYLE GETZ
Eugghhh!
MIKE JOHNSON
-and bled all over everything. That’s the straightest thing about me this week. [chuckles]
KYLE GETZ
Wow, we need a trigger warning for this episode just for that.
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, sorry. [laughs] Do you want to see it?
KYLE GETZ
No!
MIKE JOHNSON
Oh, okay.
KYLE GETZ
…Yeah, there should be something there and there is not. [Mike laughs] There’s just dried up blood instead.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yep.
KYLE GETZ
We’re hurting ourselves.
MIKE JOHNSON
I know.
KYLE GETZ
We’re gonna show up bruised and beaten up to New York City. [in a sultry voice] That’s how I like it.
MIKE JOHNSON
Goodness. Yeah. Um…
KYLE GETZ
A listener’s Gayest & Straightest?
MIKE JOHNSON
Listener’s Gayest & Straightest. This week’s come to us from Discord, and it wasn’t in the #canadians-only channel but probably should have been. [Kyle laughs] This is from Psychmurse, and says “Gayest and straightest with the one, the only @Hidden”. So Psychmurse and Hidden, two of our most active Canadian Discord folks. “Straightest, setting up a bar, running electrical cables hither and yon and carrying heavy things”, “Gayest: it was for a bear event ([called] bearachhus) and the costumes got more revealing as the night went on!” Their pics as proof, if you want to see them, join our Discord and go to the #gayest-and-straightest channel. “(Also yes I have a staff with multiple glowing gems while dressed as an orc-mage and @Hidden is rocking a harness and jock! – I am also wearing a jock under my flaps but it’s much harder to see)”
KYLE GETZ
[chuckles] Go check it out.
MIKE JOHNSON
Go check it out.
KYLE GETZ
Wow, we’re doing a lot of good promo in this episode, just left and right. Maybe we are good at this.
MIKE JOHNSON
Pew pew.
KYLE GETZ
Pew pew. That that’s it?
MIKE JOHNSON
That is it! See you in New York, you dirty fuckers.
KYLE GETZ
Yeah. I hope everyone comes out. It’s gonna be a lot of fun.
MIKE JOHNSON
Yeah.
KYLE GETZ
Um, and I would like to thank our Super Gap Bridgers: Andrew Bugbee, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York.
MIKE JOHNSON
That is it! This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.
KYLE GETZ
I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous, be you.
MIKE JOHNSON
Until next week.
[Outro music plays, instrumental]
MIKE JOHNSON
Buy your goddamn tickets.
KYLE GETZ
Buy your fucking tickets. [Mike chuckles] If we haven’t, did we mention New York, June 4th, 7 pm, The Spot? [Mike laughs] Check it out. Hope you… come.
MIKE JOHNSON
Spell “come”. [Kyle chuckles]
[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]