Gayish: 335 Condoms

Wrap up your heart. Wrap up your dick. Mike and Kyle talk about the etymology, the history, the gayta, the tips, and the tricks of using condoms. You scumbag.

In this episode: News- 1:47 || Main Topic (Condoms)- 18:30 || Gayest & Straightest- 1:21:19

Tickets for our 6th anniversary live show mini-tour are available NOW for NYC, Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, and Houston. Visit www.gayishpodcast.com/live for details and tickets. We can’t wait to see you!

On the Patreon bonus segment, we talk about what went wrong with the spray-on condom contraption (besides the obvious). Get bonus segments, episodes, and lots of other great perks by joining Patreon at www.patreon.com/gayishpodcast.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

INTRO MUSIC [MIKE JOHNSON SINGING]

When you know that you are queer but your favorite drink is beer, that’s Gayish. You can bottom without stopping but you can’t stand going shopping, that’s Gayish. Oh, Gayish. You’re probably Gayish. Oh life’s just too short for narrow stereotypes. Oh, it’s Gayish. We’re all so Gayish. It’s Gayish with Mike and Kyle.

MIKE JOHNSON

Hello, everyone in the podcast universe. This is Gayish.

KYLE GETZ  

The podcast that’s as big as a great white shart.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh. If it’s white, go to the doctor.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Or, you might be a bird.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Well… are you a bird?

KYLE GETZ  

Wait, hold on, are you a bird? [both chuckle]

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh my god.

KYLE GETZ

I thank you so much for listening. I don’t know our headphones fit in your tiny little ears. That’s so cute… as you’re pooping everywhere.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mm. Nice cloaca. [Kyle chuckles] Uh, I’m Mike Johnson.

KYLE GETZ

I love that cloaca. [Mike chuckles] I’m Kyle Getz.

MIKE JOHNSON  

And we’re here to bridge the gap between sexuality and actuality. And, today…

KYLE GETZ

Today…

MIKE JOHNSON

…fasten your seat belts…

KYLE GETZ  

…Pigeons, et al. [Mike chuckles] We’re talking about condoms.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re talking about condoms.

KYLE GETZ

This will be a very a very short episode [Mike laughs] with minimal discussion.

MIKE JOHNSON

Hey, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Hey Mike.

MIKE JOHNSON

Tell me everything you know about condoms.

KYLE GETZ  

…This has been Gayish!

MIKE JOHNSON

Great segment. Great segment. [both chuckle] Okay.

KYLE GETZ

Thanks so much for listening! [Mike laughs] I don’t know. I’ve heard tell of them.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. The fabled condoms of yore. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

Some people- Apparently you’re supposed to keep them in your… cupboard? In your refrigerator? I forget where.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Lettuce, tomatoes, condoms.

MIKE JOHNSON

Excellent.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. You keep ‘em cold so that when you put them on your deck it’s chilly.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh.

KYLE GETZ

It’s like an arctic blast for your dick.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Oh. That’s great.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Isn’t it? [both chuckle] Oh, okay, but-

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, but first…

KYLE GETZ

But first…

MIKE JOHNSON

…here’s the news.

[News segment intro plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]

Shut your mouth hole it’s time for your ear holes, news, news, news.

MIKE JOHNSON

First, we have an update.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

The continuing saga-

KYLE GETZ

Is this news the first, then?

MIKE JOHNSON

No!

KYLE GETZ

Okay. It’s just first.

MIKE JOHNSON

This is the update.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, I get it. I get it. This is the update portion. You know.

MIKE JOHNSON

I don’t know, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Okay, what’s the update?

MIKE JOHNSON

Don’t use-

KYLE GETZ

Is this-

MIKE JOHNSON  

Don’t use my pedantic nature against me! [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ  

Oh, but what- What else does it bring me, if not joy, in using it against you?

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, that’s true. Um.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, is the update that I was right and you were wrong?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yes.

KYLE GETZ

Bam, bam, bam, bauw, bauw.

MIKE JOHNSON

You were right and I was wrong.

MIKE JOHNSON  

The Dodgers have apologized and have reversed the ban on the group The Sex- What am I- Man. Whew. My mouth.

KYLE GETZ

Do we take that again?

MIKE JOHNSON

I should have worn protection. Uh, the Dodgers apologized and have reversed…

KYLE GETZ  

[chuckles] Do you need me to do the news?

MIKE JOHNSON

This is great.

KYLE GETZ

Hey, everybody, this is Kyle’s news segment. The Dodgers have apologized and reversed their decision on the ban against the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, who will now continue to receive their award at the Dodger Stadium for Pride Night.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s correct.

KYLE GETZ

Did I do it?!

MIKE JOHNSON

You did it great.

KYLE GETZ  

Oh, cool. I’ll just make up the rest of them. I don’t know the rest of the news, but I can just make it up. Two: everything sucks. Three: it’s still horrible. Four: some gay dude died.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughs] Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

That’s been the news.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s the news! I’ll read the Patreon supporters, so let’s go ahead. [both laugh] Jesus Christ. Yeah, okay, so we talked about it on last week’s show but the Dodgers have a Pride Night coming up and they were going to give a community service award to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence who are super important and have been doing awesome charity work, especially for raising money for HIV/AIDS, and then a bunch of Catholics flipped their shit because they said that they were, like, making fun of their religion, and got the Dodgers to uninvite the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. They clearly did not know who they were picking a fight with, because all- every fucking gay institution in Los Angeles County, like, came out and said “You are full of shit, you horsefuckers.”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

So- That’s a new one.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah!

MIKE JOHNSON

And then- [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

I love it.

MIKE JOHNSON

So then Kyle had predicted that they would reverse that decision and invite them back and I said, “No.” I thought that they had to double down.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

I was wrong.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. To be fair, I forced you to make a decision. You didn’t- You said- You were gonna say you didn’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. Yep. Um, okay, so- Oh yeah, then that’s coming up on June 16th. So I guess there’s still time for them to fuck it up maybe.

KYLE GETZ

For something else to get fucked up again?

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, happy Pride, Kyle!

KYLE GETZ  

Happy Pride! Wait.

MIKE JOHNSON

This is our first episode of Pride Month.

KYLE GETZ

Is this coming out on Pride?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah!

KYLE GETZ

Oh! Oh! Happy Pride! Fuck, we should have started with something Pride related.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I didn’t even- We’re not there yet ourselves, but our spirits-

MIKE JOHNSON  

Unless you’re on Patreon and listening a day early, in which case you have nothing to be proud of.

KYLE GETZ  

Ohh, yeah, sit in a corner and be shameful. [Mike laughs] It is not yet Pride for you. For everyone else, happy Pride!

MIKE JOHNSON  

For everyone else, happy Pride. Okay, so, here’s the thing: I do think that I was maybe a tiny bit right.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Okay, how?

MIKE JOHNSON

In that the Dodgers have also suddenly announced that this year they will have the return of their Christian Faith and Family Day. [Kyle chuckles] So, um-

KYLE GETZ  

Do we need- Okay, look, the point of Pride Night is we are- I mean, marketing-wise they’re appealing to an audience that usually doesn’t show up to their baseball games because gays don’t give a fuck about baseball…. except for the pants, those are cute. But anyway, otherwise we’re doing things to raise awareness for groups that are under attack, minority groups, groups that need visibility. Christians and… families… like, y’all got- you have everything. You already have it. That’s baseball. That’s just go to a game and you’re at Christian Family Night.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Like, this is already what baseball is. You have all the attention, all the rights in the country, you don’t need added visibility.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah, just go to Walmart, you’re there. It’s Christian Night. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Except, Walmart still has their LGBT section.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, shut your mouth!

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re gonna talk about that later!

KYLE GETZ

Okay. Uh, this has been… [Mike laughs] a hint to the future.

MIKE JOHNSON  

So yeah, coming up in July – July 30th at Dodger Stadium – they are going to have Christian Faith and Family Day, which is- Their star pitcher, Clayton Kershaw, who I don’t care about, [Kyle chuckles] is their biggest fan. He tweeted “Excited to announce the relaunch of Christian Faith and Family Day at Dodger Stadium on July 30th. More details to come— but we are grateful for the opportunity to talk about Jesus and determined to make it bigger and better than it was before COVID.”

KYLE GETZ  

I did hear they’ll have separate bathrooms just for priests to molest children.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah!

KYLE GETZ

Happy Christian Day.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Absolutely. Happy Christian Day.

KYLE GETZ

Let’s celebrate what makes us Christian, and that’s-

MIKE JOHNSON

Batter up. [both chuckle]

KYLE GETZ  

Eugh. [Mike laughs] The more you think about it, the worse it gets.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep.

KYLE GETZ

Christianity, everybody.

MIKE JOHNSON  

[chuckles] Okay, news the first!

KYLE GETZ

Great.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, news the first. This one’s really, really awful, so buckle up for that.

KYLE GETZ

M’kay.

MIKE JOHNSON

So there was the Olsztyn Equality March which took place on the 20th of May in Poland, and that is a thing that they’ve been organizing for a while. You might remember, we’ve talked about it on the show before, that Poland is not exactly doing great when it comes to LGBT issues. They famously have had LGBT-free zones that they’ve declared. So it’s like a heightened sense of danger there for LGBT people, But they have this equality March and uh, apparently after the parade, a woman was walking home with a rolled up pride flag under her arm and she was shot in the head with a BB gun.

KYLE GETZ

Holy shit.

MIKE JOHNSON

So- And I think that’s interesting.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Because… the intent was not to kill her.

KYLE GETZ

Right.

MIKE JOHNSON

The intent was to send a message and dehumanize.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like-

KYLE GETZ

Injure, at least, and scare the shit out of her and- Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. “The victim suffered minor head injuries and was checked over in hospital before being released. The case has been reported to police but the perpetrator has not yet been found.” Willing to bet that they will never find that person, because the police have to give a shit.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

So yeah, the Equality March organizers released a statement saying, quote, “This is an attack on all of us! Even if the police refuse to see a link between the shooting and the Equality March, we explicitly condemn this attack as an act of violence directed against the entire LGBTQIA+ community and its allies.” “This is what we face all over Poland, including Ols-” “Ols-” “Ols-” I don’t know how to say that city’s name, Kyle. [Kyle chuckles] “…Olsztyn. This is our home and we have the right to feel safe here. You will not intimidate us!” There’s only one vowel in that name, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ  

Oh, yeah. [Mike laughs] Polish language loves every consonant, especially Z’s and V’s and K’s in case, like all in a row.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yep. Yep. Yep. ILGA-Europe has rated Poland as the worst EU nation for LGBTQ+ rights.

KYLE GETZ

Wooow.

MIKE JOHNSON

Comes in last, out of 27 countries ranked based on how their laws and policies impact the lives of LGBTQ+ people.

KYLE GETZ

Ew.

MIKE JOHNSON

So, first of all, thanks for having this Equality March. Clearly it’s a place where that is needed.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Sorry about the BB gun to the head, that’s not so great.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Also, very glad that this isn’t, like, a murder fatality situation for us to be reporting on.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, Poland, get your shit together!

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. Yeah. It’s one of those things where it’s like- People are like “You rub it in our faces,” like “You’re-” and it’s, like… someone was just walking home. Like, with a rolled up pride flag under her arm! Like, was just walking home!

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yep. Just walking home. Being a human.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

[sighs] News the second.

KYLE GETZ

Great.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Uh, Houghton University in western New York has fired two former dormitory directors. That is a small Christian University. And they said it’s simply because they refused to remove their pronouns from their email signatures.

KYLE GETZ

What?

MIKE JOHNSON

[chuckles] Yeah. Shua Wilmot and Raegan Zelaya, who have unconventional names and that’s their defense for why they included their pronouns, I’ll go into that in just a little bit. But uh, yeah, Wilmot goes by he/him pronouns, Zelaya goes by she/her pronouns. So the university implemented a new policy for email formats in September, indicating that they should not include any “adornment” to your name, like pronouns.

KYLE GETZ

“Adornment”.

MIKE JOHNSON

So Wilmot said “My name is Shua. It’s an unusual name. And it ends with a vowel, ‘a,’ that is traditionally feminine in many languages.” “If you get an email from me and you don’t know who I am, you might not know how to gender me.” So he puts he/him. [chuckles] Like, plus, everybody should put their fuckin’ pronouns. It is so easy to do and pisses off the right people, [Kyle laughs] and indicates your support to people who need support.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like it’s-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Please just do it.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

There are similar controversies that are going on, one right here in our own backyard. There are 16 plaintiffs that are suing Seattle Pacific University, which is a Christian liberal arts college less than a mile from here, that the school has an employment policy that bars people that are in same-sex relationships from any full-time job on campus.

KYLE GETZ

Damn.

MIKE JOHNSON

In New York City, LGBTQ students are challenging Yeshiva University’s decision to bar their student-run club from campus. We’ve talked about that before. It’s just, they are being even more freaked out, and bold, and horseshit about things because God. And I just- It’s so stupid.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. These people didn’t know what pronouns were like a year ago, and now they hate them. And it’s one of those things where it’s like… no one- Like “We will not share, like, what our gender is.” And then you’re like “Okay, ‘Mr. Smith’. Like, what do I call you now? Do I just call you ‘Smith’?” And then I saw, like, someone that was trying to pass some dumb law about talking about sexual orientation and was like “Okay, when I talk about George Washington, who was he married to? Can I not talk about her?”

MIKE JOHNSON

Right?

KYLE GETZ

That’s- People- They don’t register that sex- they themselves have a sexual orientation. They sit themselves out of gender identity, that pronouns exist and we use them all the time. They don’t know that.

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, obviously, we don’t mean the normal one, Kyle. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

We don’t mean the normal one, we mean that weird one like you people. Yeah, exactly. It’s just so frustrating, because you use pronouns all the time.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Absolutely.

KYLE GETZ

And you’re just- You’re just now picking up on, if you put this in your email signature, that that means I support trans people, and everything is about just attacking trans people right now.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yep. Yep. 100% is, and I’m so, so sorry.

KYLE GETZ

It sucks.

MIKE JOHNSON

[sighs] News the last. Uh, it’s not gonna get better, Kyle. It’s just- The hits keep on comin’.

KYLE GETZ

M’kay.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, but let’s talk about Target.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. I had to go back and listen. I apparently didn’t talk about it on the show last week at all. You sort of did, but um-

KYLE GETZ

No. No, no, no, I- [laughs] Someone mentioned- I mentioned, like, “Oh, I think it’s great when-” Um, Rachael, from our Queer Jews episode, mentioned, like, “It’s great when I go into-” and I forget if she actually said a place, but I use the example of “…in Target, that I see rainbow colors, and that shows…” Like, that there’s something cool and useful about that even though it’s coming from a place of corporate greed. Like, it’s still a cool thing to see.

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, apparently Target has made the decision to remove some of its Pride merchandise, in light of threats the company received. Target announced this week, quote, “[We’re] removing items that have been at the center of the most significant confrontational behavior.” So, customers have antagonized Target workers, damaged merchandise displays, made threats via social media, and they are relenting by removing the most controversial of the items. The right wing is really focused on a tuck-friendly swimsuit, saying that it was being marketed to children. It’s not. It’s clearly identified as being for adults. But they’re also objecting to merchandise from trans designer Erik Carnell. Some of his products feature skulls, demons, and other scary images but Target wasn’t carrying those, instead selling tote bags and sweatshirts from the designer with pro-LGBTQ+ slogans. The Target employees in the south told Business Insider that the company has quit marketing some trans-focused Pride items and that the tuck-friendly swimwear is no longer available. In some stores, Pride displays have been moved from the front of the store to less prominent areas. So, between this and Anheuser-Busch and the Bud Light stuff, they’re losing their goddamn minds this Pride, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Fucking straight people, get your shit together.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Go attack a fellow straight person.

KYLE GETZ  

[laughs] If you want to attack anyone this Pride, attack another straight person.

MIKE JOHNSON  

I want some straight-on-straight violence in the Pride section of Target.

KYLE GETZ  

I mean, it’s really frustrating because this is exactly the issue with corporate Pride, is that because it’s not- its foundation is not rooted on the equal treatment of all LGBT people and working towards achieving that end goal, when it is threatened what we have to do is- Well, we can’t stop being gay and we can’t stop fighting for equality, so we have to stick by our morals and what we believe. Whereas, when Target is attacked, what they’re gonna look at is “How does this affect my money and my ability to employ people and, you know, which helps us make money and all that stuff?” And so it will cave because the root – the root reason this is coming up – is very different. So this is the- We’re seeing the downsides of corporate Pride. We have to know that it is temporary, it is built upon the idea of money, and it doesn’t actually care that much about LGBT rights.

MIKE JOHNSON  

I will also say: I was in this, like, bubble that said that we had made it.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

That we had reached a point in our society, in our culture, where gay people, even if not everybody was on board, that we had arrived on the stage in a place where companies had to back us, at least for June.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right? And that has been shattered this year, right? Like, between the Dodgers, and Bud Light, and Target, and whatever else is going on out there in the universe. Apparently not, right? Like, a big enough of a stink, which apparently the right is willing to make this year- It is no longer… It’s no longer a slam dunk. It’s no longer, like, a for sure thing that we’re gonna be supported.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And that’s a wakeup call. I hope that’s a wakeup call to every queer person that listens to this show. Like, it’s- We’re taking huge, giant, massive steps backward.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And… I don’t know what to do about it.

KYLE GETZ  

And the parts of our community- Gender-nonconformity seems to be the central pillar, whether that’s drag queens, or trans people, or Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. Like, gender-nonconformity is being brought into the, like, limelight of attack. And so we need to be sure that, with the rights, and social understanding, and laws that gay people have gained, that this is the time where all those people who have often been at the forefront of fighting for our rights in history, that we continue to show that we are all together in this, that you’re attacking everyone when you do that, that we- Like, it would be very easy to want- Some groups just want to break off and be like “Eh, no. Like, gays and lesbians will just keep plugging along,” and it’s, like… That can’t happen.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So now’s the time to, like, double down efforts and support for those in our community that need it most. And, you know, previously we’ve seen people of color and Black people being attacked even within our within our community. And we need to continue to look out for those that are at most risk of attack and-

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. And, like, the murder rate for trans women of color was astronomical, even before this year when the right wing crazies got crazier.

KYLE GETZ

Yep. Yep. Absolutely.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, great. Happy Pride, Kyle. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

Happy Pride, Mike.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s the news!

KYLE GETZ  

That’s the news. Speaking of none of that, because we’re gonna… because we’re happy now, I wanna-

MIKE JOHNSON

Segues!

KYLE GETZ  

Speaking of segues, um, I want to ride on over to the following Patreon member. Thank you to J Louviere.

MIKE JOHNSON

Lou- Louviere?

KYLE GETZ

[speaking Frenchly] Louvieree. Louvieree. Louvieroo. Roo hoo hoo hoo! [speaking normally] Thank you for supporting us.

MIKE JOHNSON

J.L.

KYLE GETZ

J.L., for supporting us. [both laugh] If you want episodes a day early, ad-free episodes, bonus content, episodes, bonus video, merch stuff, go to gayishpodcast.com- Nope. You can go there, and it’ll be fun, but you should also go to patreon.com/gayishpodcast.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, do it. Do you want to talk about condoms, Kyle?

KYLE GETZ

Let’s talk about condoms.

MIKE JOHNSON

Let’s talk about condoms.

KYLE GETZ  

Let’s find something to talk about condoms. So…

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

…when was the last time you used a condom, Mike?

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, for dick purposes?

KYLE GETZ  

What? [Mike laughs] No. Now I want to know what the last time you used it, regardless.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughs] Wouldn’t you like to know, Kyle?

KYLE GETZ

Mhm!

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughs] No, last time I use a condom, uh… um…

KYLE GETZ  

Water balloon fight? I’m trying to think of what else you could use them for.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like a year ago?

KYLE GETZ

Oh. Oh! Good for you.

MIKE JOHNSON

You know. Sure. Why not?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah!

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Umm… how about you?

KYLE GETZ  

[chuckles] Boy, it was the spring of 2011… [both laugh] No, I don’t know. Um, I did use one not too long ago with someone that was like “I-”

MIKE JOHNSON

…Preferred that?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON and KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So, like, within the past year, I’d say.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. I mean, I think… It’s really interesting, because I feel a sense of personal responsibility and, like, I want to be a good role model and do the, like, “Do as I say, don’t do as I do,” thing.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And I’m not super great at using condoms.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And I’m guilty of what I think a lot of gay men are guilty of, which was, like, PrEP came out and now that HIV is off the table, everything else give me penicillin and I’m fine, and go, like, go, you know, raw dog. And that’s not great.

KYLE GETZ  

Well, we’ll talk a little bit more about that.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. Okay.

KYLE GETZ

Um, about whether that’s true. But um, yeah, I think there’s both our personal- Like, yeah, I don’t necessarily want people to do what I do because it’s not great but, like, let’s talk about why that is and some of the risks that we are taking, because I want other people to make their own decision, but also knowing what the risks are. I think there’s- It’s misleading to think like “Oh, yeah, I could just maybe get, you know, chlamydia and that’s it.” Like there are a lot of other stuff, even if it’s not HIV, that you can get.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like…

MIKE JOHNSON  

Syphilis, herpes, gonorrhea, uh… monkeypox.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. Yep, yep. There’s plenty of other things that you are risking by not using condoms, and-

MIKE JOHNSON 

Like getting your heart broken. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Aww, there’s no condom for your heart.

MIKE JOHNSON

Break hearts, not condoms, everybody. [both chuckle]

KYLE GETZ  

Um, wrap up your heart.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Next time before you have sex, wrap up your heart, everybody.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, God.

KYLE GETZ

It’s the most likely thing to… get syphilis.

MIKE JOHNSON  

[laughs] Great. Great. Great, great, great. Believe it or not, that kind of is a good segue into the history of condoms, Kyle!

KYLE GETZ

Sure, okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re gonna talk about the history of condoms first.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

So according to Etymonline, one of my very favorite sites, I use it a lot-

KYLE GETZ

“Adam Online”?

MIKE JOHNSON

“Etymonline”.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

Etymology online.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, oh, oh. Got it.

MIKE JOHNSON

…We’re not exactly sure where the word “condom” came from. So there’s a theory that it came from a British physician during the reign of Charles II. That story was traceable back to 1709 but there’s no evidence that that person actually existed. Like, Dr. Condom was not a person.

KYLE GETZ  

Dr. Condom, [laughs] The worst superhero.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughs] Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

“Hey, kids, I shoot condoms out of my eyeballs,” and they’re like “We don’t use that, so you’re really pointless, Dr. Condom.”

MIKE JOHNSON  

The word “condom” is not in the original OED from 1890, so it was fairly uncommon until recently. And uh, it also- Some variations on the spelling of it over the years suggests that it might be from the Italian word “guantone” or “guanto” which means “glove”.

KYLE GETZ

Oh!

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. And apparently, like, there’s a measurable spike in usage in November of 1986 in a speech by Surgeon General C. Everett Koop on AIDS prevention and the importance of condoms in AIDS prevention. Usually it was called “prophylactic” or a “preventative” before that in, like, medical terminology, advertising, that kind of stuff. And not to say that, like, it was not used at all. It’s just, especially in mass media, there’s this- like, the surgeon general goes out and talks about the importance of condoms when it comes to HIV/AIDS and all of a sudden people are saying the word “condom” and writing it down more often.

KYLE GETZ  

Hm. That would make sense to me, that AIDS could have had had an influence on how we talk about safer sex.

MIKE JOHNSON  

100%. Yeah. Uh, speaking of other names for condoms, one- I found a whole list and I’m super excited about them. “Love glove” or “No glove, no love.”

KYLE GETZ

Yep. “Dick dam”.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, “raincoat”.

KYLE GETZ

“Raincoat”, yep.

MIKE JOHNSON

“Bubble wrap”.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, I haven’t heard that one.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, “party hat”.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] How about “jimmy cap”?

MIKE JOHNSON

“Jimmy”. “Jimmy” or “johnny”.

KYLE GETZ

Okay. “Johnny”?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep. Uh, “rubber”.

KYLE GETZ  

Usually when Johnny’s on my dick it’s… [Mike chuckles] he has a last name too.

MIKE JOHNSON

“Airbag”. “Schlong sarong” [both laugh] because it’s a wrap.

KYLE GETZ

I guess so. I guess so.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Uh, but uh, I did not realize this and I’m super happy about it: the original meaning of “scumbag” was “used condom”. Like, that insult comes from the bag you keep your scum in. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Ew, do people call cum “scum”?

MIKE JOHNSON

Apparently so, at least in this- Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Scum in me, daddy.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh God. Oh no. No!

KYLE GETZ  

Gimme that scum!

MIKE JOHNSON

Stop it. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Scum me!

MIKE JOHNSON

Stop it! [chuckles] Oh no.

KYLE GETZ

Shoot that scum on my face.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Like, now- I watch a lot of cooking shows and they’re always boiling meat and talking about skimming the scum off the top, and now I’m just gonna imagine it’s just bubbly jizz.

KYLE GETZ  

I’ve never heard anyone call jizz “scum”.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Apparently that used to be fairly common, and that’s why “scumbag” became an insult.

KYLE GETZ  

I like “cumbag”-

MIKE JOHNSON

“Cumbag”. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

-as another word for “condom”. That makes sense to me.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Um, okay, now to the history of condoms. So, condoms for sure go back a few centuries. And before the 15th century, there was some use of what are called “glans condoms” which are devices that only cover the head of the penis.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

And uh, that leads to the idea that they were for birth control, not for preventing STIs.

KYLE GETZ

Oh. And there’s gotta be some overflow.

MIKE JOHNSON

There’s gotta be some overflow. Well, and also, apparently they would come off pretty easy.

KYLE GETZ

Oh. That makes sense.

MIKE JOHNSON

Which, that makes sense.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, you know. Some of them had a ribbon that they would tie to make it-

KYLE GETZ  

Aw, cute! Tie it with a little bow! Tie that scumbag with a little bow.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Right. Yep. Absolutely. So, they were most prevalent before the 15th century in Asia and were probably used only by members of the upper classes. in China, condoms just for the head of the penis were- they found them that were made out of oiled silk paper… or lamb intestines. Um, in Japan-

KYLE GETZ  

Is that- So, is that because they could- they were the ones that could afford that kind of thing? Or-

MIKE JOHNSON

Correct.

KYLE GETZ

Or, it also seems like maybe education among- Like, I’m trying to, like, connect that to thinking about, like, what would connect to today’s use in condoms.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. I might get this wrong because I didn’t write it down, but there- it is certainly, at least partially, about cost. Even after, like, more or less modern times, like industrial revolution time, there was one anecdote I read that said that sex workers couldn’t afford condoms because a condom would cost approximately a month’s wages.

KYLE GETZ

Holy shit.

MIKE JOHNSON

So yeah, um…

KYLE GETZ  

God, that lamb… bladder that you use must be super- Oh, you’d have to go kill the lamb yourself…

MIKE JOHNSON

Right. Yeah, exactly. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

You’d have to pretend that you hadn’t named him at the time.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Right, yeah. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

Shh. Goodnight, Cheryl. [makes a visceral sound with mouth]

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh no.

KYLE GETZ

Goodbye.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh my god, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

I’ll always love you.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh.

MIKE JOHNSON

Give me that bladder sack so I can wear it on my dick.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh my god, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

You scumbag.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Now, whether the- So, the first absolutely no one denies it, it is for sure condoms the way we think of condoms being used, was in 16th century Italy in a book called “De Morbo Gallico” which translates as “The French Disease” which is what they called syphilis.

KYLE GETZ

[gasps] Holy shit.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, it was published in 1564 and it was written by – and I shit you not, this is a real person that I learned about today – Gabriele Falloppio, [Kyle laughs] for whom the fallopian tubes are named.

KYLE GETZ

Tubular.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, exactly. Um, he, in this book, claimed to have invented the condom, a device made of linen sheaths soaked in a chemical solution and allowed to dry before use.

KYLE GETZ  

They were not called condoms though at that time, right? Because you said it was until, like, the 80s that we spiked-

MIKE JOHNSON

Correct.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Correct. These were one of those that were held on with a ribbon. Falloppio claimed to have performed an experimental trial of the linen sheath on 1100 men and reported that none of them had gotten syphilis.

KYLE GETZ

God, I would love to fuck 1100 men for science.

MIKE JOHNSON  

[laughs] Thanks, Mr. Falloppio.

KYLE GETZ

Man, really doing your work.

MIKE JOHNSON

So that’s, like, for sure, at least in Western society, like, the origin. But there are a lot of historians that say that there are signs going back even further. archaeologists and historians have found some things that they point to that say, like- Even ancient societies were, like, using condom or condom-like things. One that I thought was super interesting is there is a Greek myth about Minos, who was a king of Crete, son of Zeus and Europa, and Antoninus Liberalis in 150 AD wrote it down, and they said that they think it indicates that condoms were a thing that people knew about, because it wasn’t weird to them that in this story he was cursed and the curse made his jizz contain serpents and scorpions. So-

KYLE GETZ

[gasps] Medusa’s dick.

MIKE JOHNSON

But he couldn’t not have sex, so he used a goat bladder as a condom.

KYLE GETZ  

Ohhh. He used a goat bladder to catch the serpents.

MIKE JOHNSON

[chuckles] Yes, exactly.

KYLE GETZ

Wow, we’ve been demonizing sex for so long,

MIKE JOHNSON  

I guess so, I guess so. But I- I don’t know. I don’t know, necessarily. I think I’m on the side of the scholars that are like “That doesn’t mean that people were using condoms in the 2nd century.”

KYLE GETZ  

Oh. Eh, the idea of, like, “You gotta protect the stuff that comes out you…” eh, I could see that.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Eh, well… Okay, a curse where scorpions come out of your dick? Like, that’s some metal shit.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Ow!

MIKE JOHNSON

Ow!

KYLE GETZ

Pinch.

MIKE JOHNSON

I think I would stop having sex.

KYLE GETZ

But, I mean, how can one? [chuckles] Is it possible to stop having sex at all?

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean… this is a good point.

KYLE GETZ  

[chuckles] No, I don’t know. If I jizzed scorpions, I probably would cut it off.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Anyway, so they may have been used before this, but using the cecum or the intestines of lamb or sheep is still a thing that happens, but condoms are also- they started being made out of rubber and- which, that made them a more economical choice.

KYLE GETZ

So they didn’t cost a month’s salary anymore?

MIKE JOHNSON

Right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. But also, apparently, originally, rubber condoms were prized for their reusability.

KYLE GETZ

What!?

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, they would-

KYLE GETZ

Just wash it off?

MIKE JOHNSON

-wash it out and then put it back on. And so they, um- Skinned condoms offered better sensitivity, because rubber condoms at the initial stage were pretty thick and that’s what made them reusable, but they also didn’t feel as good. I learned that, uh- And then they started making them out of latex in the 20s, and then by 1931 they were issuing condoms to all members of the US military.

KYLE GETZ  

Ohh, they’re like “Free healthcare.” Hey, we did it, America.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah, we did it. We did it. We did it. But that’s also interesting because distribution of condoms in the United States was limited by passage of what are called the Comstock Laws, one of which was a federal act that banned the mailing of contraceptive information. There were also state laws that banned the manufacture or sale of condoms in 30 states. We had some weird ideas in the late 19th century.

KYLE GETZ  

Is that the thing like “If it’s not to make a baby, then we hate it”?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. In Ireland, the 1889 Indecent Advertisements Act made it illegal to advertise condoms. Contraceptives were illegal in 19th century Italy and Germany. There’s a theme here though that we need to talk about, which is goddamn fuckin’ Catholics, Kyle. [Kyle laughs] As early as the 1600s, in 1605 in De Justitia et Jurei, which is “On Justice and Law”, Leonardus Lessius, a Catholic theologian, said that condoms are “immoral”, “They go against God in his tantamount mission for mankind to spread their seed,” and “Condoms are bad, don’t use them,” and the Catholic Church has never changed that even a little bit ever since. So, like, all kinds of contraception are banned under Catholic dogma, but- and that includes condoms, but they’ve been doing that for a really long time. Fuck you.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Fuckin’ Catholics.

KYLE GETZ  

It’s so surprising- Like, I feel like churches have… started to have to make concessions or change their opinions. I thought they were starting to get there on gay and lesbian issues.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, I feel like they’ve started to make progress or realize they had to. Their business, that is realizing that with declining membership they have to do something.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep.

KYLE GETZ

I guess it makes sense then, that, actually as I’m saying that. To keep membership up, continuing to say “You can’t use a condom,” makes sense.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Because then you will have more- Especially as, you know, less and less people have kids.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

if the ones that are having kids are the Catholics…

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Or the Mormons, but yes.

KYLE GETZ

Or the Mormons, yes. [chuckles] Then that’s actually helpful to them. So I don’t- Yeah, I guess this is one to hold on to.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Well, the Catholic Church almost certainly was a major influence on the fact that a lot of condoms were illegal from the late 19th century, in the United States, until the 60s.

KYLE GETZ  

That’s the sticking point, is it always then turns into “…and no one else can use them either.” It’s not just “We don’t believe them.” It’s “And-” “We don’t believe in them,” or “We don’t like this thing,” it’s that “…and everyone else has to dislike it too.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep, absolutely. Yep. God dammit.

KYLE GETZ

Let’s have a Condom Night at the Dodger Stadium.

MIKE JOHNSON

Let’s do it. Kyle!

KYLE GETZ

Yeah!

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s Condom Night.

KYLE GETZ  

It’s Condom Night. [chuckles] We’ll have to figure out where you find condoms.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Ugh, God. Anyway, that’s more or less the history of condoms. They’ve been around for, at the very least, like 4 or 5 hundred years, possibly longer than that, and they were made out of all kinds of stuff, and… yeah, that’s it. That’s the history of condoms.

KYLE GETZ

Um, do you want to hear some gayta on condoms?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Let’s hear some gayta on condoms. It’s gonna say… we don’t use them, gays. I don’t know, w-

KYLE GETZ

We’ll see. We’ll see. [Mike chuckles] No, that- Okay, well, I should ask you, yeah. What’s your, kind of, theories on gay men’s condom use?

MIKE JOHNSON  

My theory is that it has changed, and that has changed since PrEP. I’m going to guess that before PrEP, so pre-2008, somewhere in there, that it was much, much higher than it is now, and that now is probably like less than 20%. But that’s just me being a slut.

KYLE GETZ  

[laughs] Um, and I think that’s people’s general stereotype, is that gay men have a lot of sex, don’t use condoms, and PrEP has made them particularly risky at no condom use.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

That’s not totally true.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, great!

KYLE GETZ

So, a 2016 article from aidsmap.com talked about-

MIKE JOHNSON

I know you don’t believe this, but I love being wrong.

KYLE GETZ  

Oh, no, I believe that okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

I believe, like, you, more than most people, would, like- You just need to know the information and then you’re okay changing whatever view you have. Most people, like, have this kind of fight with themselves that, like, “No, but I want to be right,” and I believe you have a far lower- Like, you just want the data and the truth.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Now give me this fake news, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ  

[laughs] From aidsmap.com, they talked about the fact that condom use among men who have sex with men has been declining even before PrEP.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, okay.

KYLE GETZ

So it’s- There’s- And they don’t know exactly why, but-

MIKE JOHNSON  

Maybe HIV treatment options? Because those also got way better before PrEP. Like, you know, AZT was out, like, the late 80s, early 90s, and we just got better at treating it ever since. Maybe that- Maybe it’s more gradual but that’s why.

KYLE GETZ

Maybe it’s less scary? The idea of-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. It definitely didn’t feel like a death sentence anymore at some point.

KYLE GETZ  

Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, the stuff they showed was HIV-negative man reporting sex without a condom. So, the CDC- This is based on CDC research that asked whether a condom was used with their last anal sex partner, and I’ll go through time. 2005, 29% reported that the last time they had sex was without a condom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay.

KYLE GETZ

In 2008 it was 33%.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm.

KYLE GETZ

So it jumped up by 4 percentage points. In 2011 it was 35%.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mm.

KYLE GETZ

In 2014 it was 41%.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mm.

KYLE GETZ

So the- [chuckles] Are you getting horny as the numbers go higher? [Mike laughs] More men to have sex without a condom with. So over time it increases, the number of, like, people that they asked whose last sex was without a condom, and it kinda is a few percentage points each time that they ask that has been increasing. They also mentioned that PrEP, in 2014 at least – which is the last date that I mentioned, it was at 41% reported sex without a condom – in 2014, 3.5% of men were using PrEP.

MIKE JOHNSON  

3.5?

KYLE GETZ

Mhm.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, of “men”, not “queer men”.

KYLE GETZ  

Um… good question. I don’t know. Either way, it’s- It was a super low number of- I think this was all about men who have sex with men, so that’s what I guess, but I’m not sure. But there is a very low [chuckles] penetration of [Mike chuckles] PrEP use within- even when some of these numbers started coming out. I mean, you mentioned 2008 as just your rough guess, and even before that, it was still going up.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And, because that data’s from 2016, the trend I- Another article- A lot of the data I found was, you know, around this time or earlier. So, the… Guttmacher Institute- Oh, God, I want to get gutt mached. Guttmacher me. Um, the Guttmacher- [like “motch-er”] Macher? [like “mah-chair”] I don’t know. The Guttmacher Institute published a report in April 2021 documenting that the trends around safe sex from 2006 to 2019 – so, that continued 5 more years after what I said – and found that contraceptive use overall had increased, but condom use had continued to decline over time.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, that’s fucking interesting.

KYLE GETZ

So the trend continues even past this. There was, like- That was in a Buzzfeed article that talked about even, like, through the pandemic, like, that this trend continued. So the greatest increase in sex without condoms was seen in young men aged 18 to 24.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Great.

KYLE GETZ

So I-

MIKE JOHNSON

You’re welcome, boys.

KYLE GETZ

[laughs] Is it ‘cause you’re fucking those 18 to 24 year olds?

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s been a great couple years, Kyle. [both laugh] Daddy.

KYLE GETZ  

You don’t need a condom. Daddy says “No.” So, I started having sex around the middle of this date at like, what, 2009 or something? I’m in the early part of this. And so, yeah, and I used a condom the first time I had sex but then did not regularly use a condom even back when I was having sex, which was in college which was before PrEP. And… yeah, and I was age 18 to 24. Like, I don’t know, it makes sense to me that that group is at a higher risk and that, around this time, like, I fit in with these numbers of… I was probably one of those people that was not as likely to use condoms, and contributed to the increase of condomless sex.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm, hm, hm.

KYLE GETZ

So, we talked about there are a variety of reasons to use condoms, and HIV is the main one that we bring up, but there are a lot of other reasons to. However, I think it’s still important, especially because we are talking about HIV, that we talk about black men who have a unique- Um, a 2017 study from the CDC said that 1 in every 2 Black men in the US will get HIV in his lifetime.

MIKE JOHNSON  

What?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

50%?

KYLE GETZ

Yep.

MIKE JOHNSON

Wow, okay.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. So, according to a 20-

MIKE JOHNSON

Is this still MSM or is this, like, anybody?

KYLE GETZ

It said “…2 gay Black men.” “1 in every 2 gay Black men.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Gay Black men, okay. Great. Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. But a 2014 Reuters article said that “According to our data-” This is a quote from someone else. According to the Journal of Sexually Transmitted Infections, “…condoms may be used more frequently by black (men who have sex with men), but they are also used less effectively and with more errors.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Mm.

KYLE GETZ

So, it seems to be that Black men have gotten this message and are using condoms more, which is great, but there are issues with them breaking, or slipping, or not being used correctly. Apparently, 31% of Black men said their condoms worked effectively, compared to 43% of White men. So- And Black men who have sex with men are about 6 times more likely to be diagnosed with HIV compared to White men who have sex with men. Some of the reasons for this are thought to be – and we don’t totally know everything – increased prevalence of HIV among Black men… lack of access to treatment and prevention services-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. And that’s my guess.

KYLE GETZ

That would make a lot of sense, that we don’t care as much about the areas of the country that are predominantly Black, that we don’t- we give them less access to resources and care less about making sure there’s a hospital, or making sure there’s healthcare, or making sure there’s even food or… You know.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Well yeah, and our healthcare system’s so fucked up, it’s so fuckin’ expensive and, like, people of color, make less money because the world is fuckin’ stupid.

KYLE GETZ 

Yep, yep. Other reasons: stigma, discrimination, but they say that condom breaks and improper condom use may also play a role. If more of them are reporting issues with using condoms, then that could be a contributing factor. So how does this compare to straight people? So, the latest- The last data point I had was 2014, for gay people at least. In 2014 it was 41% said that they had sex without a condom in their last sexual encounter. So, actually, backing up to that, like, I don’t know, maybe- If we stop right there, then that’s still a majority that reported, that means 59% said that they did use a condom with their last sexual- anal sex encounter. So that already- That idea bucks the stereotype that, like, every gay man is having condomless sex all the time.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

If the trend continues like it is, a few percentage points every year, we might be closer to 50/50 these days, like, if we just draw a straight line with the numbers that we’re seeing, but it’s still not like an overwhelming majority or anything that are going condomless. Which, I think- So, I think, even if the numbers have increased since that 2014 number, I still think it goes against the stereotype that people have.

MIKE JOHNSON

So I’m a bad person. Thanks for that, Kyle! Appreciate it. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah, no problem. Gayish: we learn we’re bad people. No, I think you have the same assumption that a lot of people do.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. I’m also fighting the human tendency to do exactly what we said earlier and be like “Well, maybe they’re lying! Maybe they’re saying they’re using condoms when they’re really not.”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Because I want- I want it to be true. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well- Yeah. And there is, like- People lie. They also did this survey at, like, gay clubs and places that gay men hang out. Like, so there may be, like- You know, there a lot of reasons that the numbers- So, the numbers themselves may not be totally true.

MIKE JOHNSON

[chuckles] “Yes, I totally use condoms all the time!” [whispering] I don’t use condoms.

KYLE GETZ

Ah, “Hello, boys! I use condoms all the time and I love them!”

MIKE JOHNSON

Don’t tell my judgy friends. They’re right over there. [both chuckle]

KYLE GETZ  

So then, at that point, if, you know, we’re asking about that, we’re still looking at the year over year data that shows the increase. So, presumably, the same percentage of people will lie, or the- You know? Like, as long as we’re doing consistent format then we can at least compare the numbers. Speaking of what we cannot compare, a completely different study though is what I’ll share, at least for straight people because, you know, all studies have different methodologies and the number- So, the numbers themselves can’t be compared but I just wanted to get a ballpark of where straight people are at with this. So, there was a 2017 research study about straight people called “Factors Associated With Condom Use Among Sexually Active US Adults, National Survey of Family Growth”, and, of course, when they say “Among … Active US Adults” and a “National Survey”, they mean straight people.

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure, yeah. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Because that’s the default. If it’s not- If you don’t see “gay” in the headline of the research article, it’s- they’re not gonna include gay people.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

But, um-

MIKE JOHNSON

But are they gonna exclude gay people?

KYLE GETZ  

Oh, yeah. In this one they did exclude- They just looked at single men and single women.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Did you know that that’s what the Alanis Morissette song “Uninvited” is about?

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Gay men in surveys?

MIKE JOHNSON

Keeping them out surveys, yeah.

KYLE GETZ  

That would make sense. Play that during every gayta segment I do. So, for unmarried or single men that reported using a condom during their last sexual encounter, it was 51%.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh.

KYLE GETZ

51% used a condom in their last sexual encounter.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

And these are straight. They excluded the gays, so these are…

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

…straight men. For unmarried and single women who reported using a condom during their last sexual encounter, it was 37%.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Wow.

KYLE GETZ

Which-

MIKE JOHNSON

Wow. That surprises me.

KYLE GETZ

Me too. Why did it surprise you?

MIKE JOHNSON

I just think of girls as being more responsible. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON  

But then I guess there’s also this bullshit, like patriarchy, whatever, that, like, the dudes are in charge. Like, the men are supposed to bring the condoms and decide whether they’re being used or not and, like-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s part of- Especially in my earlier days, that was part of my struggle, is, like, having the assertiveness. Like, women have been set up and trained not to be- Like, if you’re assertive you’re “a bitch”. So, like, if you, during any kind of sexual encounter, are asserting any kind of…

MIKE JOHNSON

Boundary whatsoever?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. And it’s- I’m using the word “assert”, but, like, stating. Not that you’re being rude, or mean, or anything about it. If you just state a boundary, like you said, then that would be grounds for, like, [in a bro voice] “I can’t believe what she did, man.” But anyway, the other- Yes. So, I am also surprised. The other thing I thought is maybe women know that they have to take matters into their own hands, especially for pregnancy, and maybe they’re less likely to have used them because they’re like “Well, I know I got my pregnancy sitch figured out,” whereas a man sleeping with a woman doesn’t know… don’t know what she’s been doing, or not doing, or what have you. So maybe they’re more likely to be like “No,” for m- Like, that’s the thing they can do for their own personal, you know, safety of not getting pregnant.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So, that was my other idea. But yeah, even straight people bucked the trends or the stereotypes that I had for them.

MIKE JOHNSON

Huh.

KYLE GETZ

And, again, like, we can’t compare these numbers, but it’s like… So, 51% of single men- Like, all of these are- Like, we’re not too far away then from…

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah,

KYLE GETZ

Like, our condom use doesn’t seem to be too far away from each other.

MIKE JOHNSON  

It’s so interesting because, like, the two big value propositions of condoms are the prevention of STIs and the prevention of pregnancy. And, cis gay dudes anyway, that’s not gonna- like, pregnancy is not going to happen, so I would think that that would- Like, with a whole use case out of the picture, I would think that that would skew things way more than apparently they do.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s interesting.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. And I mean- Even, again, like, while we can’t compare these numbers directly, like… I don’t know. If we did, it would say straight people u-

MIKE JOHNSON  

Say that with more derision. [derisively] Straight people. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

[derisively] Straight people. People have the straight persuasion. I wanna talk about it like the way they talk about- People whose preference is to be straight.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, people struggling from opposite sex attraction. [both laugh]

KYLE GETZ  

People who deal with the affliction of being straight. [Mike laughs] It says that they use condoms less than us.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So, again, like, we can’t actually compare the numbers so I don’t know that for sure, but it’s funny that even that concept is like mind blowing, that no one would believe. If you just told a random gay person and said “Hey, gays use condoms more than straight people,” they would be like “Fuck you, no they don’t.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

“No gay uses a condom.” And so maybe it’s that we’ve learned- We showed, especially, I think, during monkeypox, that our response to health crises is better than [chuckles] straight people on the whole.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm, mhm. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Um, so maybe-

MIKE JOHNSON

In the hole.

KYLE GETZ

In the hole.

MIKE JOHNSON

Around the hole. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

With the scumbag, without the scum- So maybe we are, because of- Even though it hasn’t- Maybe some of the effects are fading away. Our response to the AIDS crisis, like, maybe there’s still increased condom usage because of that?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, I don’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. I think it’s likely or possible.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

I really- I really keep coming back to HIV/AIDS as being, like… it has to be a big factor here.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

But, um-

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. And, if so, that would make sense that the further away you get from it, the less and less people that lived through it-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-and saw all the, you know, everything that it wreaked on the society.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, it could make sense that then people are less kind of moved by that experience.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Huh.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Those are the numbers.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Those are the numbers. Well, we’re gonna talk about more numbers.

KYLE GETZ

[gasps] Ooo.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, we’re gonna talk about condom sizes.

KYLE GETZ

Oohh.

MIKE JOHNSON

And I know that you’ve got some more stuff later on, like the right way to use a condom.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

But, um-

KYLE GETZ  

Put it in the trash! [both laugh] No, use it, if you want. I don’t know. I’m not your mom.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Medical News Today, which is a site that I found, talks about condoms sizing and they say the condoms that are too small may break, condoms that are too big can slip off, and poor fitting condoms can feel uncomfortable during sex. So the people that are like “I don’t like the way that it feels,” might be onto something. But the people who say “It isn’t going to fit,” are wrong. [Kyle chuckles] Like, your dick is not too big for a condom, because I can put a condom over my entire head. [Kyle laughs] That’s not saying-

KYLE GETZ  

And now, for the Patreon segment, [Mike chuckles] Mike will be placing-

MIKE JOHNSON

I’ll do that. I don’t give a fuck!

KYLE GETZ

Oh, alright. Let’s put- We have- [crinkling sound] Ooo, this is some ASMR shit.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

[crinkling continues] [whispering] That’s the sound of condoms rubbing together. I bought condoms at the store.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

[whispering] And I had to- [speaking normally] I didn’t buy condoms at the store, I was just trying to do an ASMR thing.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Uh, according to the Cleveland Clinic, the average erect penis length is about five inches, average girth is around four and a half inches when erect, that’s circumference. And so, the Food and Drug Administration – and they’re the ones that regulate condoms as a medical device – say that the minimum length for external condoms is 160 millimeters that’s 6.3 inches.

KYLE GETZ

Wait, the minimum?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yes. They have to be at least that long because the idea is then they will fit, like, 85% of the population.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, in terms of length.

KYLE GETZ

But if you have an average-length dick then it won’t fit you.

MIKE JOHNSON

You’ll just have a little bit left over at the bottom.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

Which is actually ideal, I guess, apparently?

KYLE GETZ

Ohh.

MIKE JOHNSON

I don’t know, you’re the one that’s gonna talk about using them. That leaves some room for the condom to remain rolled at the base for an average-sized penis. Trojan brand, for example, says that their standard condom is the proper fitting choice for a penis between 5 and 7 inches long with a girth of 4 to 5 inches. Which, if you look at, like, actual data about this, there are no 10 inch dicks, everyone. Stop @ing me.

KYLE GETZ

You’re wrong.

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s, like- Okay. [Kyle chuckles] I might- I’m open to- I’m open to evidence-based-

KYLE GETZ

You’re not.

MIKE JOHNSON

I am.

KYLE GETZ

That’s okay. No you’re not.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, uh… but if you look- If you look at the bell curves, that fits, like, the vast majority of men. So, quote, “For the vast majority of people, standard sizes are appropriate, but everyone’s anatomy is different,” “It’s best to read the information from that specific condom manufacturer for their guidance on how to determine the best fit for you, and that information should be readily available on the packaging.” I kind of liked this: “It’s kind of like picking out a pair of jeans. Sure, there’s no shortage of pairs that’ll cover you from hip to ankle, but you may find certain brands or certain cuts to be more comfortable. Maybe you’re the straight-leg type or perhaps bootcut is more your jam,” [Kyle laughs] “Nothing wrong with being a little choosy.” “A properly fitted condom will cover your penis snuggly (but not too tightly) from tip to base, with a half-inch reservoir at the tip. For some people-”

KYLE GETZ

Hah, “reservoir”.

MIKE JOHNSON

“-that may leave an extra bit of rolled condom at the base [and] that’s OK, and some people prefer that feeling,” like a little cock ring.

KYLE GETZ

Ohh.

MIKE JOHNSON

“But if it doesn’t reach to the base of your penis near your stomach, that’s a clear sign to try a bigger size.”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

So, running out of condom and you’re not all the way down, that’s maybe- Maybe- You know, congratulations, move up.

KYLE GETZ  

If you have an extra, like, little rolled up part at the base you can just stick those balls in too.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, yeah!

KYLE GETZ

Just shove them balls right in there.

MIKE JOHNSON

Just do it. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

I mean, why not? You got extra.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Otherwise it’s wasteful.

KYLE GETZ

Otherwise it’s wasteful. [Mike laughs] Use all of your condom, it’s like finishing your vegetables. [Mike chuckles] Use all the condom you have. There are some kids in – name a country here – that don’t get any condom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right. Yeah. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Use all your condom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Ukrainian soldiers don’t have condoms.

KYLE GETZ

Exactly.

MIKE JOHNSON  

You should- [both chuckle] Yeah, no leftovers.

KYLE GETZ

No leftover condom.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, back to Medical News Today.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Back to actual information.

MIKE JOHNSON

So, in general, length is less of a problem than girth in terms of finding condoms that are fit appropriately.

KYLE GETZ

Finding butts that fit appropriately too.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, they divide condom brands into “snug fit”, “regular fit”. and “large fit”.

KYLE GETZ  

Aw, I love “snug fit”. Like “This one’s gonna be cozy.”

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. [laughs] A girth of less than 4.7 inches needs a snug fit, 4.7 to 5.1 needs a regular fit, and 5.1 to 6 needs a large fit, and they say to do that measurement by taking either string and marking it or using a tailor’s tape around the thickest part of the shaft, wherever that is. For most men, that’s somewhere in the middle. And then they offer, you know, their choice of brands that fit each of those 3 categories. Last thing about sizing, and then you can tell us about technique: Reuters did a story back in 2009… yeah, April of 2009, where- covering a study by the Institute of Condom Consultancy…

KYLE GETZ

Oh sure.

MIKE JOHNSON

…where they asked 10,000 men in 25 countries to measure their penis and put the number into a database, and then tried to use that to, you know, figure out the proper distribution of condom sizes for manufacturers. Now, it’s of course self-reported.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And that’s very problematic in the history of, like, penis sizes.

MIKE JOHNSON

But, um, they said, um, “According to this sample, The French say they need the largest condoms…” [TN: in Europe]

KYLE GETZ

Sure.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Uh, “… … while Greeks get by on smaller ones,” and I guess Germans are somewhere in the middle there. They also were using the survey sort of as a push poll to educate youngsters about the importance of effective contraception. This place is hilarious: they offer online condom size advice and they have, um, they have an annual fair – or at least they did back in ’09 – an annual fare called “Pimp Your Condom” [Kyle chuckles] in cooperation with the National AIDS Trust.

KYLE GETZ  

Is that like… bejewel it and, like, add neon light effects, and-

MIKE JOHNSON

I guess. I don’t know.

KYLE GETZ

-leather interior?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. [laughs] Like, get yourself a mini fridge and, like-

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. Xzibit busts into your house and he’s like [Mike chuckles] “I’m here to pimp your condom!”

MIKE JOHNSON  

Oh my god. If you are interested in using that data at all – or, there are a couple of other data sources for this, but – you can go to myonecondoms.com. MyONE is a brand.

KYLE GETZ

My… o-n-e?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. But they have 10 different lengths and 9 different widths, so they have 90 different sizes of condom. And uh, they will introduce you to your size code, where you put in the length and girth of your penis, and they will give you a code, and that code is like, at least according to their methodology, the perfect condom for you.

KYLE GETZ  

And then you can get them, it sounds like, delivered rather than having to go to the store and be like “Hi, I’m gonna fuck tonight.”

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yep. Absolutely. And they say that, uh, your size code is always a secret to them. They will protect your size code.

KYLE GETZ  

“To the death,” it says.

MIKE JOHNSON

To the death.

KYLE GETZ

They will murder anyone trying to access your size code.

MIKE JOHNSON  

They also say that they are the first and only condoms FDA approved for anal.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

I don’t know if that’s true or just their marketing department, but it’s on their website.

KYLE GETZ

Interesting.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Uh, that’s condom size, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Well, do you want me to talk about tips?

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure.

KYLE GETZ

Let’s talk about the tips.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Let’s talk about the tips. All of the tips.

KYLE GETZ

So many tips.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh wait. Before that, in Patreon, I’m gonna to tell you some jokes.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

But I’m also gonna talk to you about the totally failed experiment that was spray-on condoms.

KYLE GETZ  

I feel like- I would have some thoughts on why that might have failed from the jump. [Mike laughs] Like, I feel like I already have some suggestions on that kind of creative idea.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re gonna find out.

KYLE GETZ

Okay, okay. Um-

MIKE JOHNSON

Tips!

KYLE GETZ

I’m gonna tell you-

MIKE JOHNSON

But just the tips.

KYLE GETZ

Just the tips.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I found this information on PinkNews in a 2018 article by Danny Polaris.

MIKE JOHNSON

I heart that site.

KYLE GETZ

First of all… I just copied down, throughout the course of the article, anytime they gave a suggestion or-

MIKE JOHNSON

Sure.

KYLE GETZ

-even asked a question, just what they were. So we can go through them in order. Having condoms available shows to someone that you are active in your sexual health.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Oh! Yeah! Having a bunch of condoms around your place shows people you don’t actually need them. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ  

I- I didn’t- I didn’t think this- I don’t know. I don’t know how I felt about this one.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mmm. Mm. Mm.

KYLE GETZ

I think it’s one way to signal to people that you are active in your own sexual health but, like… I don’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON  

I mean, I whipped out a bunch of condoms that we’re gonna play with on the Patreon segment and, like, I don’t know, what did that say to you?

KYLE GETZ  

That… I don’t know, that you have condoms available? Which, that’s great.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

That’s, I think-

MIKE JOHNSON  

That’s all it says, I think. Like, you have them. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ  

I think you may be more likely- If you have condoms around, you’re probably more likely to use condoms, I would guess, than if you don’t have condoms sitting around.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s true. They have to be there to be there.

KYLE GETZ  

Mhm.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm.

KYLE GETZ

They have to be there for you to use them. [Mike chuckles] So I think it does say something. I think there are lots of ways to signal your sexual health. They also had, like, you know, “Make sure you have some in your nightstand, and in your wallet, and in this thing,” and it’s like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Not in your wallet! That will ruin them!

MIKE JOHNSON  

Will it?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah!

KYLE GETZ

Oh, how?

MIKE JOHNSON

‘Cause sittin’ on it, and mashing it around and, like-

KYLE GETZ  

I thought they should be able to take a little bit of beating.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Well, yeah. I think the big thing there is that they, like, will wear out faster.

KYLE GETZ

Mmm.

MIKE JOHNSON

But I-

KYLE GETZ

Interesting.

MIKE JOHNSON

I don’t- I don’t actually know if that’s true. Fuck, now I gotta look it up, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

Okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

Son of a bitch. [typing sounds] “Is… it bad… to put… condoms… in your wallet?” Not socially, I mean medically, you whores. “The short and sweet answer to [the] question is that what you’ve heard is true! A condom stored in a wallet may be damaged by lots of action”.

KYLE GETZ  

Mmm, now we gotta put on the Danity Kane song “Damaged” onto the playlist.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah we do. Don’t know it.

KYLE GETZ  

[singing to the tune of “Damaged”] My condom’s damaged, so damaged.

MIKE JOHNSON

[laughs] Don’t-

KYLE GETZ

[continues singing] Thought that I should let you know it.

MIKE JOHNSON

Don’t put it in a wallet!

KYLE GETZ

Okay. And, I also think [chuckles] the idea of, like, havin- like, let’s just say in your pocket, like, ready to go- I don’t know. I think, because more people are having sex through apps, you kind of already know what the deal is before you get there. I think that was my biggest reaction to, like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-“If they have condoms around, that means they’re active in their sexual health!” It’s, like… I don’t even know- Like, we talk about all this. It’s on your profile and you have conversations about this before you even get there, so I think more of this is happening up front and your profiles have this indication.

MIKE JOHNSON

I’m with you, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So… Apparently, ribbed and studied condoms are designed to give an extra level of sensation to vaginas.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So, if you’re using them with a cis male partner for anal then there might not be a point in, um, having anything fancy.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah, I’ve literally never gotten anything out of a condom that had any kind of gimmick associated with it.

KYLE GETZ

Have you tried?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, what kind?

MIKE JOHNSON  

I was married to a lady.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

You forget that, maybe.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] No, no, I want you t- I was encouraging you to tell me about it.

KYLE GETZ

Like, ri-b-b-bed.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah? Did-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, I mean, it’s the same for me. [makes an “I don’t know” sound]

KYLE GETZ

Did she prefer those?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Ummm… no. It’s more of a novelty than anything. It’s like “Oh, we’re doing something naughty, because this one has ribs.”

KYLE GETZ

Oohh. “Let’s go crazy. Let’s get ribs tonight.” [laughs]

MIKE JOHNSON  

[chuckles] And we were together for so long too that, like, we usually didn’t use them at all. It was mostly when she was on her period. Anyway…

KYLE GETZ  

So even- That’s interesting. Even with a female partner, you would mostly use, like, picking the right time of the month to have sex instead of condoms?

MIKE JOHNSON

I- I mean, it, like-

KYLE GETZ

What was your, you know, pregnancy prevention?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Oh. Um-

KYLE GETZ

Kind of… repertoire?

MIKE JOHNSON

She was on birth control.

KYLE GETZ

Birth control.

MIKE JOHNSON

Um, the pill. And so that was- That was the method, especially after we were, like, together together.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

You know.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, mostly, condoms were for, like, preventing a mess.

KYLE GETZ  

Mm. Oh! Interesting.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Huh! Is there- Does it feel like you’re getting a little bit more cagey around talking about your sexual… things you can do sexually with your ex-wife, or not?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Oh. I don’t know.

KYLE GETZ

Oh, okay.

MIKE JOHNSON

I’ll talk about it. I don’t know. I’m mostly worried about talking about periods-

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

-because I know that that’s not, like- that’s not a thing that gay guys usually chat about.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. But I think- I think all cis men should be more open to talking about periods more often, because I think it’s something we’re shielded from and then we don’t know. Like, I have twice sat in on a group of cis women talking about their periods, and two times it was maybe 15 minute conversations and then they, you know, like, apologized that I was sitting there. And it’s like “No, no, no,” like, I learned so much about periods and just what it’s like to have them. I think we, like, shield men from this concept that they have periods and that, like, that it sucks, and they’re the ones responsible for taking birth control, and that does things to their body that we just accept as normal.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

You know? Like, I think there’s a lot that we just pretend like men don’t have to know, so I think it’s good to talk about.

MIKE JOHNSON  

And not to mention- Well, no, I’m gonna mention it. [Kyle chuckles] The whole, like, “Periods are gross and disgusting,” and that’s built on misogyny.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

It’s the exact same misogyny that says that “Yeah, you’re a gold star gay because you haven’t had sex with a vagina.”

KYLE GETZ

Yes.

MIKE JOHNSON

Congratu-fucking-lations.

KYLE GETZ

Yes.

MIKE JOHNSON

Dickface.

KYLE GETZ

This was for sure- We haven’t talked about it in a while, but this was for sure something I did when I first came out of, like, pretending like I thought “Oh, like, vaginas are gross.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And, in addition to being, like, transphobic, that’s also misogynistic. Like, there’s a lot of issues that come along with that, and I’ve stopped doing that.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yep. Well, if you don’t want to hear this, then too bad. Part of the thing with wearing a condom when she was on her period is that it felt different. Like, there’s, um- There’s, uh- I mean, there’s stuff coming out of there because she’s on her period and it’s kind of gritty. It feels- On your dick it feels gritty. Like, there’s- It just does, and that’s not always super pleasant so adding a barrier there would help that difference in sensation. But then there’s also, like, sometimes you want to bang and not have to take a shower immediately right after. And, like- But if you got, like, blood and mucus all over your dick then you gotta jump in the shower. So, like, that’s an easy peasy way to just, like, not make a mess.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. Interesting. I don’t think about condom use for, like, that purpose.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Which, I mean, gay people, like, that is a possibility too.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. For sure.

KYLE GETZ

Like, as much, you know-

MIKE JOHNSON

Been there. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. So it might be nice just as a preventative measure, just because you never know. Sometimes… What did that guy say? “Sometimes-”

MIKE JOHNSON

“Sometimes it comes with a Hershey Kiss.” [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

Sometimes there’s a little Hersey Kiss.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh no.

KYLE GETZ

Um… more tips. Bottoms, if you have a lot of different sexual partners, keep a variety of different sizes.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

That seems smart.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, seems smart. I will say, okay, as a bottom, if the condom doesn’t fit right and it, like, crumples up so there’s, like, wrinkles in it, I don’t like the feeling of that. That feels really bad and gross, to me. Like, mm-mm.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. I would imagine. [chuckles]

MIKE JOHNSON

Great. [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ

No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Okay, so it’s also partia- But then- Okay, this is gonna sound judgy and I don’t want it to. Like, if you’re a bottom and you’re like “Pick a size, any size,” like, if you show up, doesn’t that make you seem slutty?

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh.

KYLE GETZ

I know, I shouldn’t be using that kind of judgment, and it should show a positive sign of-

MIKE JOHNSON

I think it shows that you’re responsibly slutty.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

That would be one of my conce- I mean, compared to what I do, which is not use condoms, like, that’s the sluttiest thing you could do. So, like, I don’t know why I’m judging, like, “Hey, here’s all of my different varieties of condoms.” You’re right, it shows that you’re responsible. But I think that could be a fear that someone has, of, like, “If I have too many options, then it makes it look like I’m having sex every day and night,” when there’s nothing wrong with that.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. [Kyle sighs] What if you could have, like, all your different size condoms but, like, on a keychain so that you could just, like, flip them over until you find the right one? [both chuckle]

KYLE GETZ  

Like fabric swatches? [Mike laughs] That you’re like “Do we want the light pink? Do we want the teal? Do we want the charcooch?” …That’s not the color.

MIKE JOHNSON

“Chartreuse”?

KYLE GETZ

Chartreuse. I almost said “charcuterie”, which is where I got trapped in the middle of that word.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, latex is the most common.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm.

KYLE GETZ

It is possible to be allergic to latex…

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

…probably less so than is stated. But there are alternatives like polyurethane and polyisoprene.

MIKE JOHNSON  

One of those is basically latex with different proteins in it so that it-

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

-doesn’t cause the allergic reaction.

KYLE GETZ  

Oh. Feels just like latex.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

When using lube with condoms, water or silicone are the most common. Don’t use anything that has oil in it like lotion, Vaseline, or oil-based lubes with your latex condoms. Oil can damage latex and make them break.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep.

KYLE GETZ

You can generally use oil-based condoms with non-latex plastic condoms.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great.

KYLE GETZ

What kind of lube do you usually use?

MIKE JOHNSON

…Whatever? [laughs]

KYLE GETZ

You don’t have a preference?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Uh, water-based lube. I use water-based lube for the most part, mostly because I find, um… well, a couple of things. First is that, like, it cleans out of stuff better. So, if it gets on your sheets, or your clothes, or whatever, it’s okay. Silicon… like- Silicone? Silicon. Silicone. Silicone lube, like, stains. Like, it’s there forever, [Kyle chuckles] and that bothers me.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

I also think, like, silicone lasts longer?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

But it isn’t as, like, I don’t know, slippery? I don’t know.

KYLE GETZ  

I see silicone as being more slippery. I like silicone better. Like, water, it just seems like you have to keep reapplying and reapplying it.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah!

KYLE GETZ

Which seems like a lot.

MIKE JOHNSON

Gives you a- Gives you an excuse to take a break. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ  

Oh. Oh, okay. I guess so. Um, it says water-based lubes dry up quickly so there is risk. You have to make sure you’re reapplying if that’s the case, because otherwise you would risk the condom breaking.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm.

KYLE GETZ

Make sure they’re not expired.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. Like these [laughs] that I found.

KYLE GETZ  

Well, but you all said that, and what I saw online is that most latex and polyurethane condoms will have an expiration date of about five years past the manufacturer date. So that- They last longer than I expected.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mm.

KYLE GETZ

I thought, like, “Oh, a year,” or something. But so maybe the condoms aren’t expired.

MIKE JOHNSON

Hm! Hm.

KYLE GETZ

Whose responsibility is it to bring the condoms?

MIKE JOHNSON

Everyone.

KYLE GETZ

Everyone. Yeah, right? Usually it’s like, “Is it the tops because they’re the ones- like, because it’s the penetrative person? Is at the bottoms because they’re the one at more risk?”

MIKE JOHNSON  

I have heard, like, it said that, like, it’s the top’s job to decide what lube because, like, the bottom doesn’t care, and I disagree with that.

KYLE GETZ

Oh. Huh.

MIKE JOHNSON

But that’s something that I have heard.

KYLE GETZ  

Oh. Lube, for me, is just something that, like, everyone has. Like, every gay person just has lube.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right? [makes an “I don’t know” sound] I guess I do? [chuckles]

KYLE GETZ  

I just thought that that one was most common, and then it’s like, the question is like… gotta see, like, “Do they have condoms?”, “Do they have poppers?”, “Do they have, like, other toys?” that you may want to use. Like, those are the question marks, but I thought the lube was pretty… common.

MIKE JOHNSON

What if we say it’s whoever’s hosting? That’s whose job it is.

KYLE GETZ

Mm. I like that.

MIKE JOHNSON

Because you’re already there. [laughs]

KYLE GETZ  

Although, I do like, like… I don’t know. Yeah, I like that idea. The host, like, you can just pull out your array of sex things and then-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, your color swatches.

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Yeah, exactly. I get the idea of, like, “Bottoms have to do more work to prep,” so, like, then, like, “The top is bringing the gear.” I don’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I also- Like, this is another part that doesn’t come up because, like, I just talk about it in advance. So if someone’s like “I only use condoms,” like, “Okay, cool, do you have them then?” [chuckles] “Because I certainly don’t. So I think that’s something, these days, you can negotiate more easily upfront. And, lastly, if you have problems with premature ejaculation, condoms can make you last longer because they decrease sensitivity.

MIKE JOHNSON

Boy, howdy.

KYLE GETZ

That’s not the ringing endorsement of condoms that you would want it to be, but that’s at least one suggestion-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah! I mean, it’s a-

KYLE GETZ

-for why you may use them.

MIKE JOHNSON  

It’s for sure a serious thing for a loooot of dudes and, like, yeah, that can absolutely help.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. What other advice do you have for condom use?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Uh, no? No, I-

KYLE GETZ

“No.” [both laugh]

MIKE JOHNSON

I don’t- I don’t know. I don’t know.

MIKE JOHNSON

I did have this thought- Wait, no. I don’t wanna talk about it. Okay. I don’t really have a lot of tips, that’s for sure.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. I… I think I should be using condoms more.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And… I don’t know, I tend to focus- I know that, because of my PrEP, I’m very likely covered for HIV.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep.

KYLE GETZ

I feel like I’ve gotten the host of STIs that you can. So, chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, like, I- Like, that’s happened and I still… kind of take that risk.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I’ve gotten syphilis, so now every STI test shows that it’s- Like, your whatever – numbers – stay above a certain rate, so it looks like it’s positive every time, so it has to be a thing every time. I’m like, “I’ve gotten syphilis in the past, so here’s, like-” So, syphilis is, like, a bigger thing. You have to get, like, a couple shots in the butt and that sucks.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Titration. Your titrates are still there.

KYLE GETZ

Titrates.

MIKE JOHNSON

Mhm.

KYLE GETZ

But there are other things that you can get through this. I mean, like everyone has HPV-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-so that seems like a bit of a wash. But, like, herpes, you can get other things-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-through this, that I’m just kind of, I think, ignoring. I think I’m just pretending that’s not there or something, that risk isn’t there, or I haven’t run into it yet.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So, I don’t know. I should probably be using condoms more, especially if I’m in, like, a slutty mode.

MIKE JOHNSON

Well, and you- I mean, do you actively dislike them?

KYLE GETZ  

Um… yeah, because, like, I want it in my butt.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh-huh.

KYLE GETZ

I think that’s hot.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And so, without it-

MIKE JOHNSON

You mean the load.

KYLE GETZ

The load, yes.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yes.

KYLE GETZ

Yes. Not the condom. [chuckles] In fact, the condom is a specific barrier to me getting what I want.

MIKE JOHNSON

[chuckles] Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, so that- And I think part of what has driven that as a fantasy has been porn.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, porn, especially when, like, kind of the mainstream, like, porn sites- Like, they made these big announcements when they, like, “We go condom-free now!”

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. “Bareback is happening with this special one,” because “Every other one, we have condoms in it.”

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s a fairly recent thing, a fairly recent change in the grand history of porn, right?

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does seem like in the past five years, like, all the- like, a lot of major studios have moved over to not using condoms or- And, when they do, it’s often tried to, like, hide it. Like, you put your hand around where the, like, the base of it is to try to hide the little ring there.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep.

KYLE GETZ

Like, I feel like they often try to hide that they’re using condoms even when they are, because they know that people don’t want that kind of porn.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I’ve even, like, watched porn with, like, a hookup or whatever, and, like, anytime we find someone with a condom we’re like “Next.” [Mike chuckles] Like, it- So it’s- I don’t know. You can’t blame- I know all the information and am still choosing to, so it’s not- You know, I know that I’m responsible for that decision. And also, I’ve seen this commonly in porn.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Do you- Does it feel that way for you to?

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It used to be just as you said, that, like, the bareback or raw dog porn would be like a special occasion kind of a thing, and now I don’t remember the last time I saw a condom in porn.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, the last 4 or 5 years feels about right. Everyone has gone to… the default is no condoms.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Shean Cody certainly did.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And others.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

So, like, yeah. That makes you wonder, like, what’s the impact then on condom usage, right?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. For sure.

MIKE JOHNSON

Like, is it about- Is it about seeing condoms normalizes them and then makes you more likely to use them? I don’t know.

KYLE GETZ  

Well, I think that might be why we think that no gays, is because-

MIKE JOHNSON

Right.

KYLE GETZ

You know, what do you have to measure against? If you talk to your friends about it, that’s one way, but not everyone does.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So, like, what you see in porn is kind of the other option.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, how often are you comparing notes with your friends about whether you use condoms? Or, for us, it’s often just a joke. Like “Ahah, won’t use condoms.” Like, that- And then that’s kind of it. So, like, the message you’re getting from porn and from jokes [chuckles] within gay circles is that no one uses condoms.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So I could see why that could then influence you to think, like, “Oh, well no one’s using condoms,” so either that “I feel better about it,” or “I feel safer,” it’s more normalized. Like, I could see that happening for sure.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.

KYLE GETZ  

I’ll say, like, I think I struggle not just with condoms but in any kind of sexual situation with being assertive enough to-

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, I’m fortunate on the condom side that, like, I am not trying to… use a condom, so I’m not trying to assert a boundary or anything.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

And part of me wonders if that’s also because that would then be another thing that I’d have to, like, bring up front or assert when someone comes over, and I’m really bad at doing that. So, pick anything else and I’m really bad at, like, asserting boundaries, or things that I like, or don’t like, and um… I don’t know. Especially in, like, a- It’s easier to do over, like, a text or in an app when I can, like- I don’t- I can end the conversation immediately whenever I want.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I feel like I’m a little bit more in control and, you know, distant, so I can assert myself. But I don’t feel comfortable- I’m really bad at asserting myself in person with someone else-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

-at, like, a boundary or thing I don’t want.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s humans humaning though, right?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

There’s a weird pressure to it, and that’s difficult to navigate.

KYLE GETZ  

Have you, like, had to assert- Like, are you- How are you at asserting boundaries or things?

MIKE JOHNSON  

Ugh, terrible.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah?

MIKE JOHNSON

But getting better, I think. Mostly because, like, I’m really… Um. I’m not demisexual, Kyle! [Kyle chuckles] But typically like to save anal for, like, a repeat encounter. Like, and I’ve gotten to the point now where I will assert, like, “That’s a next time thing.”

KYLE GETZ  

Are people receptive of that?

MIKE JOHNSON

Mostly, yeah. Seem to be. Yeah, I don’t know. I think- My focus on, like, connection as part of sex is- like, lends itself to that conversation better… than, like, what I picture in my head as like the standard anonymous hookups kind of a situation where, like, there is no conversation, there’s no talking about it, it’s just, like, “You show up, and you bang, and you leave,” kind of a thing. So, I don’t know. I don’t know. The thing I wasn’t going to talk about earlier, and now I’m going to – and you’ll understand why I’m nervous about it in just a second – is the last four partners that I had insisted on condom use. Uh, three of them were trans dudes. And, like, it seems like every time I’ve hooked up with a trans guy condoms have been part of the scenario. And that’s just because their sexual health reasons are different than cis dudes. And, um, I just- I’ve noticed that. I have noticed that, like, if I’m gonna hook up with a trans guy, it’s likely a condom is gonna be involved and, like, just know that that’s a thing and bring one. And, you know, whatever. So, I was hesitating to want to talk about it for two reasons. One is, I don’t want to speak for, like, all trans dudes but, like, my personal sample size is what shows that. So, um- But then the other thing is, I’ve gotten into a couple of scraps online with people that, like, say that because I hook up with trans guys I must be bisexual, and I don’t want to invite that conversation again.

KYLE GETZ

Oh.

MIKE JOHNSON

I’m not. I don’t identify that way. Shut your fuckin’ mouth.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. And also, it’s very transphobic to say that hooking up with a- Hooking up with a man [chuckles] does not make you bisexual.

MIKE JOHNSON

Right.

KYLE GETZ

Hooking up with men makes you gay.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s right.

KYLE GETZ

And trans men are men.

MIKE JOHNSON  

That’s right. So, if that’s what you think, first, grow up second, second, like, I don’t want to hear it.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah, don’t bring that up. That makes sense. I think- The last thing I’ll say is, condom use is also- Like, this isn’t- I talked about, like, being able to assert yourself when this comes up. So, luckily, this doesn’t come up with me, but I see other people, like I’ll see posts on Reddit when talking about- like AskGayMen, and someone will be like “I asked a partner to use a condom and he didn’t,” or “I thought we were using a condom we didn’t,” and, like, that’s sexual assault.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, that is a- Like, if you are placing a boundary on something – or a rule, whatever one it’s called – like, if you’re saying “This is what- I only will have sex with a condom,” and someone intentionally misleads, tricks, does something to have sex without one, like, that is- You can define it for yourself what you want, that could be bad sex for you, that could be, you know, whatever but, like, that is also sexual assault.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yep. It is. It absolutely is.

KYLE GETZ

I think more people need to realize that, mostly because, like, some people will, I think, dismiss that as just, like, “Oh, bad behavior,” or, like, “Oh, I don’t know. Like, how much should I care about this?” or, like, kind of let someone off the hook when they really shouldn’t Yeah. That’s a really shitty thing, to be told directly what someone is not- is off the table, and then someone doing it anyway.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, that’s kind of the definit-

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah, that’s very, very violating. Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. And yeah, if anyone’s gone through that, that really sucks and that is- You don’t deserve that. You should have- deserve to have people who respect what your boundaries are without having to push for them or, you know, have to deal with any of that.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

So, I think that’s really important when it comes to condom use, that if you are good at using them and if you are good at asserting yourself, you deserve to have that respected.

MIKE JOHNSON

Now did we do it?

KYLE GETZ

Ah, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

We did something?

KYLE GETZ

We did some stuff. [Mike laughs] We did stuff! Yeah! Like me with men, we did stuff.

MIKE JOHNSON

Ah, well lubricated. Okay, um, so, should we take a break?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah. Let’s take a break!

MIKE JOHNSON

Let’s take a break.

KYLE GETZ

Break. [half-singing] This is the part where wah mah wah bah bah baow baow!

[Break music plays, sung by MIKE JOHNSON]

This is the part where Mike and Kyle take a break!

MIKE JOHNSON

Are you ready?

KYLE GETZ

Yep.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, so are we back?

KYLE GETZ

We’re back!

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re back!

KYLE GETZ

We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest.

MIKE JOHNSON

We’re gonna do our Gayest & Straightest, but first…

KYLE GETZ

Buy your tickets.

KYLE GETZ

Buy your tickets! We’re going to be in New York, like, day after tomorrow.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

You dickbags.

KYLE GETZ

Very soon.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, “dickbags”! Condoms!

KYLE GETZ  

Aww! [both chuckle] You scumbags.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah!

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Affectionate.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, we are also going to be in Seattle on June 23rd, Chicago on July 29th, San Francisco on August 13th, LA on September 10th, and Houston on October 15th. So take a look at tickets at gayishpodcast.com/live and come see us.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeaaaah! We would love to see you, except if you’re dumb. Uhh… our website is gayishpodcast.com.

KYLE GETZ  

We are on Instagram @gayishpodcast. We also have a Discord, a Facebook group, Spaces. Get all that info at gayishpodcast.com/contact.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Our hotline, you can send us text messages or leave us voicemails, is 5855-Gayish. That’s 585-542-9474. Standard rates apply.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah, leave us voicemails, we love them, especially if they’re your Gayest or Straightest or if they’re a question for Ma Johnson for Momsplaining.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. Yeah!

KYLE GETZ

Um, we have an email: gayishpodcast@gmail.com.

MIKE JOHNSON  

And our physical mailing address is Post Office Box 19882 Seattle, Washington 98109.

KYLE GETZ  

I almost just started singing Local Gay Bar Review.

MIKE JOHNSON

Oh, we can do that!

KYLE GETZ

[chuckles] Okay. I didn’t know if you actually had one, but I just- That jingle jumped into my head.

MIKE JOHNSON  

[singing] Local Gay Bar Review. [speaking] Okay, I want to talk to you about a place that we also went together, which is Somewhere Bar in Garden City, Idaho near Boise.

KYLE GETZ

Ohh, yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

And uh, we went there.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, we went a couple times.

MIKE JOHNSON

There was a- Right at the door there was a person selling homemade jockstraps.

KYLE GETZ

Yes!

MIKE JOHNSON

And that’s when I knew that we’d arrived home.

KYLE GETZ

[laughs] Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Uh, it was karaoke. We did karaoke.

KYLE GETZ

Mhm.

MIKE JOHNSON

A boy from Grindr came there to meet with me.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

That was interesting. I really liked it. I think that, like, if I lived in the Boise area that would be my bar, as opposed to The Ball- The Balcony.

KYLE GETZ  

Balcony. Yeah, I completely agree. I think it has a little bit more- Like, these days my bar of preference are like a little bit more lowkey, like not so much like you go to see and be seen.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like, a little bit chiller vibe. Places where you can just go, and sit down, and hang out if you want to. There are some pool tables there.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Like you said, they had karaoke.

MIKE JOHNSON

Visible lesbians.

KYLE GETZ

Visib- [both chuckle] Yeah, people of, like, different varieties. Um, I really enjoyed that place too.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. 4 dildos!

KYLE GETZ

Ooh. Yeah, I agree.

MIKE JOHNSON  

Great. Now Gayest & Straight?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah, sure.

MIKE JOHNSON

Great, Gayest & Straight. Uh, do you want me to go first?

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Okay. The straightest thing about me this week: I had condoms! [both laugh] Which, I know that your research apparently says that I’m incorrect about that, but I did think-

KYLE GETZ

We’re talking stereotypes, so it fits.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah. I- Having condoms at the ready, available for playing with on camera. [both chuckle] Uh, straightest. Uhm the gayest thing about me this week is I am attending a fundraising gala coming up, and look at these gay-ass shoes. [Kyle gasps] I bought these gay-ass shoes, Kyle.

KYLE GETZ

[gasps] Oooh, so sparkly!

MIKE JOHNSON  

They are rhinestone shoes.

KYLE GETZ

I love these.

MIKE JOHNSON

Caviarr rhinestone shoes from Steve Madden.

KYLE GETZ

These are so cute.

MIKE JOHNSON

A friend of mine at work is involved in this organization called Plymouth Housing and they work on, like, the horrible housing shortage that is the greater Seattle area. But their annual fundraising event is called “Pop Some Tops” [Kyle laughs] so I’m going-

KYLE GETZ

You’re going as a top?

MIKE JOHNSON

I mean, I’m going as- But, like, as the token gay of this, like, table of straight people. And the theme this year is Interstellar Discotheque.

KYLE GETZ

Oooh.

MIKE JOHNSON

That’s why I decided to go for those shoes. I also got a blue sequined tuxedo jacket-

KYLE GETZ

Wow.

MIKE JOHNSON

-that I’m excited to show you next time for my gayest. [both laugh]

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

How about you, Kyle?

KYLE GETZ  

My gayest is… Oh, I got the coveted double, like, the boyfriends checking me out.

MIKE JOHNSON

Ooh.

KYLE GETZ

It was very clear. Like, I was walking way across the street, these dudes were walking away from me, they seemed to be together, one of them looked over, checked me out, looked back said, something to the other guy, the other guy looked over, check me out. So I was like-

MIKE JOHNSON

Nice.

KYLE GETZ

“You’re definitely checking me out,” and I felt so validated.

MIKE JOHNSON

Well done.

KYLE GETZ

Yeah.

MIKE JOHNSON

Good work, girl.

KYLE GETZ

Um, the straightest is the exact opposite happened when all the, like, hot shirtless runners are going by.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

I’m like, you know, bending over, [Mike laughs] giving sultry looks or batting my eyelashes. None of them gave a shit about me, so they all must- They must have been straight if they didn’t care.

MIKE JOHNSON  

I’m sure [Kyle chuckles] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, also, like… I don’t know. One way to make me not horny is to have- like, go run. Like, [Kyle laughs] they’re busy. They’re doing other shit.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. It could just be that they’re in the middle of running. But they’re, like, running shirtless, so they’re clearly, like-

MIKE JOHNSON

On the prowl?

KYLE GETZ

I don’t know. They want a little bit of attention.

MIKE JOHNSON

They’re inviting the gaze?

KYLE GETZ

They’re inviting the gays a little bit.

KYLE GETZ

Alright. A listener’s Gayest & Straightest this time comes from our Spaces. So-

MIKE JOHNSON

Spaces.

KYLE GETZ

So you can go to Spaces and we have a bunch of different Spaces within our Space. I don’t know how to- what they’re called. But anyway, in our main Space I asked for Gayest & Straightests and this one is from Brett. “Straightest: I rebuilt the ramp to my tool shed.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Ooo.

KYLE GETZ

Wow. Impressive.

MIKE JOHNSON

Yeah.

KYLE GETZ

Um, and “Gayest: I celebrated my third anniversary of being married to another dude.”

MIKE JOHNSON

Aw.

KYLE GETZ

Happy three year anniversary, Brett.

MIKE JOHNSON

Happy anniversary, mos.

KYLE GETZ  

Yeah. That’s so sweet. Um, so, I think that is it.

MIKE JOHNSON  

That’s it! This has been Gayish. Buy your fuckin’ tickets, you dickbags.

KYLE GETZ

Buy them please, [Mike laughs] lovely, lovely humans.

MIKE JOHNSON

And see you in New York in a couple of days.

KYLE GETZ

Um, thank you to all the people who wear condoms. Good for you.

MIKE JOHNSON

Eh.

KYLE GETZ

Eh. Okay. [Mike laughs] Um, and thank you to our Super Gap Bridgers who I’m sure all use condoms: Andrew Bugbee, Christopher M, John Crawley, Stephen Portch, Joh Stoessel, Harry Shaw, Josh Copeland, Jonathan Montañez, Waddu, Forrest Nail, Patrick Martin, James Barrow, Steve Douglas, Explosive Lasagna, Michael Cubbington, Just Jamie, Kevin Henderson, Tomas B, Timothy Saura, DustySands, AE Coleman, Chris Khachatourians, and Jerome York.

MIKE JOHNSON  

That is it. This has been Gayish. From the Chris Khachatourians studios, I’m Mike Johnson.

KYLE GETZ

I’m Kyle Getz. Until next week, be butch, be fabulous be you.

MIKE JOHNSON

See you in New York.

KYLE GETZ

See you in New York.

[Outro music plays, instrumental]

MIKE JOHNSON  

[airplane audible in the background] That plane, where’s it going? Do you think it’s going for condoms?

KYLE GETZ

It seems so close. Condom run.

[Transcriptionist: C Dixon, CMDixonWork@gmail.com]